Paradise or abelo poly national.

[user 819]

Long lug of BS for me, I tried 16 x10 Comm frames and was Mr Fumble fingers.

 

[ericbeaumont]

the lack of discussion’s about this hive and the fact they are pushing them, I wonder what the uptake has been like

One extra frame is neither here nor there, so the only practical advantage is TBS, offset by incompatibility with BS National and an impractical QX. Locking boxes? If the stack is going to blow over, it's going to blow over, interlocked or not.

This alternative may work for a beginner starting from scratch, but using one format only is an undisputable truth in beekeeping, in which case the 12-frame is of no use to most of us. In the end, it answers a question no-one asked.

 

[lindsay s]

A good reply to my question and using one format is what we impress on the new starts up here.
I’ve only ran cedar Smith hives until now but I’ve been impressed with how well my bees are doing in my poly nucs so I decided to take a punt on the Abelo 12 frame poly hives because I couldn’t find any poly Smith’s. I was actually looking for a smoker on the Abelo site when I came across their hives! Yes I’m disappointed with the queen excluders and the locking boxes are a pain in the when it comes to separating full supers. I also think the rebates are meant for keeping the rain out as well as stability.
My Smith frames are interchangeable with the Abelo hives and I will stick with the short top bars as I intend to run both side by side for a few years and I’ll have plenty of kit for both. My harvest this year has more than paid for the Abelo’s so if things don’t work out it will be no loss to me.
The price of the hives at the moment might tempt a few new starters and this is on their website.
“We will continue to manufacture all poly hive variants to ensure we provide beekeeping systems to suit all styles and management methods.”
So hopefully the format should be available for some time.

 

[oliver90owner]

I’ve not bought any new hives for years - and don’t intend to.

Top or bottom bee space and flat surfaces between boxes was more important to me.

Boxes can be pulled together to maintain a good seal, if necessary, but bee space had to be top for me. Having crown boards with lips on either side seemed stupidly expensive, more difficult to scrape clean, used up unnecessary space above, didn’t allow easy sealing with insulation, etc, etc.

KISS principle for me. A simple square of 10mm ply, for a crown board, was a no-brainer.

Langstroths are all top bee space? So why not Nationals? Half-and-half seems a stupid idea because the crown board cannot be made flat…

 

[Sanntos]

And that's why beekeeping in the UK has always been miles behind the rest of the world, forever fiddling around with different hive setups/concepts with equipment producers feeling honour bound to pursue even the slightest whim from hobby beekeepers. I was true at the beginning of the last century, Dr Frank Smith said the same in 1963, and still the same now

You are not behind us in Sweden, we have the same situation. Unfortunately. Once a locally dominant beekeeper in 1910 have invented something it lives forever in the catalogues

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

Long lug of BS for me, I tried 16 x10 Comm frames and was Mr Fumble fingers.

I'm going the other way,
I've psoritic arthritis and find the long lugs on Nat frames are a pain and find the commercial easier to handle as I'm increasingly holding the side bars not the lugs.
Totally agree with a previous mention that life would be a lot simpler with one common spec in the UK.

 

[DarylN]

Regarding the Abelo hives, does the deep roof version suffer from the water ingress problem or is it just the 2nd generation with the shallow roof?

The advice on the Abelo site about water ingress and vaseline seems to be just for the latter.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have deep roofs. Hives are watertight

 

[Boston Bees]

Regarding the Abelo hives, does the deep roof version suffer from the water ingress problem or is it just the 2nd generation with the shallow roof?

The advice on the Abelo site about water ingress and vaseline seems to be just for the latter.

The boxes are the same for both types. So the deep roof would protect the top box, but if you have two or more boxes then the joins between the boxes would be just as prone to leaking, whatever the roof is.

I can confirm that these boxes can let water in, even when strapped down fairly tightly (though I don't use ratchets, that might help). Whether the leaking is really a problem I am not so sure, but it isn't ideal.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I can confirm that these boxes can let water in, even when strapped down fairly tightly (though I don't use ratchets, that might help). Whether the leaking is really a problem I am not so sure, but it isn't ideal.

Do the old style boxes leak?
I ask because I have old style 14x12 and they get topped with a mish mash of poly and wooden supers then with an old style deep roof but I don’t use Abelo supers to compare.

 

[Boston Bees]

Do the old style boxes leak?
I ask because I have old style 14x12 and they get topped with a mish mash of poly and wooden supers then with an old style deep roof but I don’t use Abelo supers to compare.

Ahh, don't have any so don't know.

I just have the new style ones which are now the only type you can buy (apart from the 12 frame thing).

 

[Erichalfbee]

They seem to have 14x12 in the old style. I’ll have to do a quick stock take of my kit.

 

[SWEET]

Any thoughts on the 12 frame Abelo poly hives now that the season is over, here’s mine.
I like the way they look but it hasn’t taken me long to get them grubby.
I still dislike the fact that the queen excluders are sunk into the rebates but with practice I’m not squashing so many bees.
When I separate a hive for inspections I like to remove two supers at a time for stacking nearby and usually a quick twist and a lift gets the job done but the rebates on the Abelo boxes makes this job a pain in the . I now have to prise up the supers before I can twist them to break the brace comb and trying to do this with two full supers is difficult to say the least .
At the height of the season I was finding a lot of dead bees in the inspection trays under the O M F it might have been down to me not closing them properly so I will need to check the undersides. Next summer I will leave them out.
I like that the hives are easy to move and the feeders fit under the roofs without the need for a super / eke.
Despite the drawbacks there’s still something about this hive that makes me want to persevere with it. So another one arrived last week!

View attachment 28812

Hi, Yeah lots! as intended to purchase 10's of these for 2022.

Looking at your comments above; you could use a QX (unframed wire (edge bound) or steel directly on the rebate and avoid placing on the frames (there is a bee space above the QX/frames so would work). Regards trays, unsure why you are leaving these in? as intended as OMF units and the trays look totally sealed when fitted anyhow. The sticking supers sounds like you are leaving them a fair time to be welded together like this? you could try rotating the supper boxes 90 degree's to each other when stacking so the frames have less area for the bees to build comb? . Looking at the space between super frames it's more than a couple of bee spaces so left for weeks I can see there might be an issue (or lifting two at a time).

Personally the bungs seem a little OTT but could be glued, standard kit can be used with this 12 frame unit but they would need strapping down tight I reckon.
I run double brood which makes these expensive V's the Swienty (which is fine with a few simple mods for a cheap unit) but these are certainly very robust looking.

Yet to buy/test the other Abelo national, looks solid.

Cheers

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

you could try rotating the supper boxes 90 degree's to each other when stacking so the frames have less area for the bees to build comb

Not that old chestnut!

 

[Boston Bees]

Not that old chestnut!

I was just wondering how on earth this 90 degree concept worked .....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I was just wondering how on earth this 90 degree concept worked .....

Or if there's ever been a 'problem' that needed solving

 

[user 20297]

I think it's been mentioned here or somewhere else recently, that Abelo have acted on the feedback from BMH, whose videos regularly review their equipment. Laurence Edwards has highlighted the usefulness of a full-size, poly, Ashforth feeder used as a crownboard. The Abelo version is (as usual) is a bit expensive, but they've put together a hive which includes a floor, two deep boxes the feeder and a deep roof. I was in the market for some equipment in any case and that deal fits my present needs.

https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/nation...tional/national-poly-ashforth-hive-blue-grey/

 

[SWEET]

I was just wondering how on earth this 90 degree concept worked .....

Or if there's ever been a 'problem' that needed solving

Evening gents.

It was something I used to do when leaving a super of stores on the hives for winter*, they would weld the boxes together which was a real joy come March, rotating the super 90 degrees gave them less area (overlap) to weld the frames together (it does/did help). Lindsay mentioned she has issues with the boxes being welded together and the rebate means she can't twist the units to break the comb, all I said was maybe *trying* to rotate them might help... another option she could try is separating the boxes more often I guess.

Anyway, I've had a deeper look at the 12 frame unit as your comments fired me up. It seems the bee space is 13mm between the frames v's 8mm on the Swienty and my Obb hive, so maybe the issue here is the large space between the frames and guess the bees are happy to fill it with brace comb.

Some images showing the bee space (Swienty v's 12 frame) and the 90 degree frame (ha), oh and my massive observation hive in the study showing brace between frames. The great thing about having an observation hive is you can actually watch the bee's in action. As you can see the frames are joined together, but to be fair they are rarely moved. If they are welding the frames together like that (in Lindsay's case) I can see it being a real pain with the rebate.

*the past few years I've used a slab of fondant on the frames rather than a super (works very well) and I don't rotate any boxes.

 

[ericbeaumont]

the usefulness of a full-size, poly, Ashforth feeder used as a crownboard

The Abelo Ashforth poly feeder has five rôles and is worth the money: syrup feeder; insulated crownboard; fondant feeder - put the fondant on the top bars and turn the feeder upside down; split board - put the split box on the feeder, take the bung out of the split box wall, add a plastic 450mm sq. sheet, put the roof back on; lastly, cappings and scrap comb recycler - slide open the slidey thing and let the bees come up.

I think the idea of a feeder as a crownboard came originally from Murray McGregor; certainly I saw it first on his Twitter a few years ago when he posted photos of feeders on all winter. All winter! That woke me up.

It struck me that the benefit was not just the extra top insulation but the saving of repeat labour: of putting feeders on and taking them off, carting about, cleaning and storing.

The boxes do get a bit skanky inside - cobwebs and brown condensation and dead things - but I rotate the worst out for cleaning every so often.

One failing of the Abelo box: the interior paint. I believe it's improved lately, but most of mine are coated with a cheap emulsion, which is not really what's needed. I have a stack of feeders prepped for two gloss coats.

The slotted stainless baffle is also not ideal; I guess Abelo use it as they buy in bulk for big equipment, but bees tell us something by propolising the slots.

A solid plastic baffle would serve better and reduce loss of heat up into the box. Murray does without the baffle and adds straw to syrup instead.

 

[Swarm]

I thought I might order a couple more Abelo roofs despite their price increase, I was horrified to find they've gone up again and are now £36 for painted.
Nice roofs but not at that price.