Over wintered Nuc.... how much ?

[Pete D]

Having seen some silly prices mentioned previously what would be the going rate of a 2012 over wintered Nuc that meets with the FERA guidelines..........

I have just agreed to selling 2 14x12 @ £125 each and a std Nat @ £120 which I am happy with.

Does it really justify prices of £200 + ?

Pete D

 

[For want of a better word]

Having seen some silly prices mentioned previously what would be the going rate of a 2012 over wintered Nuc that meets with the FERA guidelines..........

I have just agreed to selling 2 14x12 @ £125 each and a std Nat @ £120 which I am happy with.

Does it really justify prices of £200 + ?

Pete D

HIGHEST SEEN SO FAR THIS YEAR.... Availiable MAY !!!
£375 in a correx nuc box... collection only... Best Buckfast Bees ....​

 

[Tom Bick]

Well I and perhaps others must be doing something wrong as I have over wintered a nuc and providing it continues I have promised it to someone free and the over wintered TBH nuc going the same way. I have also promised two other people if they need bees I will sort them out providing they get a queen.

 

[Chris B]

Well I and perhaps others must be doing something wrong as I have over wintered a nuc and providing it continues I have promised it to someone free and the over wintered TBH nuc going the same way. I have also promised two other people if they need bees I will sort them out providing they get a queen.

Nothing wrong with giving things away Tom. It doesn't change the fact they have a value though.

Pete, if those are your prices for an April collection then perhaps you're underselling a bit. You'll see a lot of bees for sale from June onwards in the £150 region from smallscale beekeepers who've caught a swarm or done some artificial swarms. Your bees are vastly more valuable as they incorporate the potential for this years honey crop. New beekeepers won't necessarily understand that of course and splash out on bees late season only to see them die as the queen wasn't mated properly - unlike yours that have a proven young queen.

 

[peter genders]

Good on you pete some need more help than others to get started.

 

[Pete D]

Nothing wrong with giving things away Tom. It doesn't change the fact they have a value though.

Pete, if those are your prices for an April collection then perhaps you're underselling a bit. You'll see a lot of bees for sale from June onwards in the £150 region from smallscale beekeepers who've caught a swarm or done some artificial swarms. Your bees are vastly more valuable as they incorporate the potential for this years honey crop. New beekeepers won't necessarily understand that of course and splash out on bees late season only to see them die as the queen wasn't mated properly - unlike yours that have a proven young queen.

Hi Chris, I have these nuc's in brood boxes as I had a few left from my first attempt of splitting colonies last year and they outgrew the nuc boxes by September. I must of hit on a lucky mating window as after making 11 splits I had a laying queen in 10 of them 3 weeks later and the other 1 the following week. They all took plenty of food down when I rehoused them. I did sell a few at the back end whilst trying to reduce my numbers for the same price or lower. I figure that other than maybe a tenner on fondant and varroa treatment my costs havent really increased. I have 3 more but these are reserved in case of drone layers or to help with unites to meet the OSR crop.

I only mentioned it as my brother was looking at buying some bees to increase his numbers and prices looked high. Of course I will provide him with spares / swaps if he really needs them............. but he in turn knows that I could sell them and pocket the cash..........dilema

Pete D

 

[drumgerry]

There's always the thought that if people have to pay for their bees they take their care a bit more seriously than if they get them for free. I have no qualms about charging for a couple of nucs I've overwintered. I think for a 5 frame nuc £150 is not an outrageous sum.

 

[madasafish]

I will be selling one of my overwintered TBH nucs - excl. the TBH - for £80 .

 

[pargyle]

There's always the thought that if people have to pay for their bees they take their care a bit more seriously than if they get them for free. I have no qualms about charging for a couple of nucs I've overwintered. I think for a 5 frame nuc £150 is not an outrageous sum.

Strikes me that, with the current upsurge in people wishing to keep bees and the potentially high number of colony deaths over the winter, there is more money to be made from breeding bees than selling their honey ! Good job there are some generous beeks out there for the more poverty stricken potential beekeepers ... £375 ? Outrageous ... £150 ... fair price for an established over wintered nuc with a laying queen.

I suspect that the market will drive the average price, certainly in April/May to well over £200. A lot sold out last year and £175/£180 was the going rate.

 

[Pete D]

Will be interesting to see the prices at the early auctions this year.........
Lincoln for example.
Pete D

 

[drumgerry]

I agree Pargyle - £375 is at the extreme end of the price range! Not one I'd be comfortable charging. Full colony in a good condition hive plus a couple of supers? Then we'd maybe be up at the £350+ mark. Even then only just as I think I'm right in saying you can get a new cedar National with two supers from Caddon for about the £120 mark.

But £150 for an overwintered nuc with a 2012 queen - enough to make you think seriously about it but not beyond the reach of a reasonable portion of the population.

When I got my first two colonies in 2004 they were full colonies with a decent quality National hive included for £100! Changed days.

 

[Chris B]

When I got my first two colonies in 2004 they were full colonies with a decent quality National hive included for £100! Changed days.

In 1999 everyone told me the going rate was £50 for a colony in a 2nd hand hive. The only trouble was nobody wanted to sell me one. There were no nuc suppliers except Thawns and Maizy who I think were charging about £100 but didn't actually have anything available. The ONLY person willing to sell me bees was a certain Mr Roberts of Glos. who wasn't even advertising the fact, and I had to deliver my hive to him and pick it up 2 weeks later with the bees installed. I did get about 2 hours free tuition into the bargain but most of it was over my head.
Times have changed.

 

[drumgerry]

I think I just got lucky at the time Chris - got my bees from an old boy who was wanting to reduce his numbers. I also got a long lesson which I didn't really understand including stuff about the Miller method which was about a mile above my head! So much so it was dark when I got my bees home and I had to install them using the car headlights for light. Good times!

On the subject of nucs I also think anyone selling a nuc with a current year's queen created as part of their swarm control should not be charging as much. I see too many people selling late nucs and the buyers don't really understand the difference. I'd have thought it was good practice to be making it very clear what's being sold with a price to reflect that - maybe £80-90. I don't know....

 

[Chris B]

I'd go along with most of that. The later a nuc the less it's worth as a general rule.

 

[Little John]

I think there's something missing here ...

Sounds to me as if people are talking about bees being sold as if they were tins of beans: so many frames of bees for a pound ...
Any by 'proven' I assume that people simply mean that the queens have been successfully mated and seen to lay ?

But what about their characteristics ? No-one has yet mentioned those.

A cheaply priced nuc soon becomes less of a bargain if it turns out later that it requires re-queening. Likewise swarms which are frequently sold on, 'as is'.

A few extra tens of pounds may turn out to be a far wiser investment if the nuc has the characteristics being sought after, whether that be for maximising honey yield, or a preference for gentleness.

LJ

 

[pargyle]

I think there's something missing here ...

Sounds to me as if people are talking about bees being sold as if they were tins of beans: so many frames of bees for a pound ...
Any by 'proven' I assume that people simply mean that the queens have been successfully mated and seen to lay ?

But what about their characteristics ? No-one has yet mentioned those.

A cheaply priced nuc soon becomes less of a bargain if it turns out later that it requires re-queening. Likewise swarms which are frequently sold on, 'as is'.

A few extra tens of pounds may turn out to be a far wiser investment if the nuc has the characteristics being sought after, whether that be for maximising honey yield, or a preference for gentleness.

LJ

Your post makes a good case for sourcing any bees/queens from a beekeeper that is known/trusted/thoroughly recommended - and ideally one who can demonstrate the (hopefully) good temper of their bees. Whether that temper is passed onto the Nuc you are buying has got to be speculation.

But ... I would think that Newbees may often fall into the trap of just:

a) Buying a hive
b) Buying a Nuc

and it is those people who, with little experience and lots of enthusiasm, are likely to be caught with all sorts of issues.

Our association helps new beekeepers to get some suitable bees and are also embarking on a queen rearing programme which may also assist.

There should, perhaps, be a thread on here 'What not to do when you want to become a beekeeper'. Must be a few horror stories to be told ...

 

[Chris B]

Any by 'proven' I assume that people simply mean that the queens have been successfully mated and seen to lay ?

'Proven' is more than that.
Queens tend to fail quite early in their life or else they last a couple of years. If you buy a new queen or a nuc containing one, there is a much higher risk of failure than with a queen that has been laying okay for a few months. And once she's been laying for a couple of months, or overwinter, all the bees are her offspring so colony characteristics reflect her as well. That's why an overwintered nuc is superior - unless of course they've turned out nasty, but hopefully nobody is unscrupulous enough to try to sell those on.

 

[drumgerry]

I think there's something missing here ...

Sounds to me as if people are talking about bees being sold as if they were tins of beans: so many frames of bees for a pound ...

I don't think anyone quite described selling bees like that. But the OP was asking about the cost of an overwintered nuc. Which necessitates the vulgar mention of pounds and pence I'm afraid.

I'd have thought "proven" was also a given - we're talking about an overwintered nuc here - so the queen has survived the winter with her progeny and has started to build the colony up. Any problems with her by say April will have become very obvious. In which case a decision to cull her should be made.

As to her qualities I guess you're getting what the seller deems valuable - assuming s/he's not just making nucs off of swarm cells from any old colony. For myself I've been grafting from my best the last couple of years and I hope that I'm passing on something decent.

 

[drumgerry]

Our association helps new beekeepers to get some suitable bees and are also embarking on a queen rearing programme which may also assist.

Unfortunately Pargyle just because the association says they're suitable bees doesn't always mean they are. I know of one instance of bees being bought from an entirely unsuitable source to be sold to beginners on an association's intro to beekeeping course.

 

[Chris B]

On a related topic:
I don't know if anyone's read through the DEFRA Bee Health consultation document, but one thing mentioned was some sort of control on nuc. sellers to enforce good practice. Now that could mean anything, but they are asking for feedback so it's an opportunity to register an opinion on whether you think controls are a good idea, and what sort of controls. Bear in mind the consultation is about bee health, as opposed to pricing and good breeding.
Deadline is 9th March.