Over winter colony

[fizzle]

Hi Folks,

Hope you all bee keeping well.

I have not opened my hive in a few months. Last time I checked they still had plenty of fondant in reserve. Was wondering what to expect when I open up the hive for the new season. What's the difference between a strong and weak hive moving into the spring?

How many frames of bees would you expect to see or does it matter? I would imagine the more bees the better as it gives them a head start.

When does the winter bee naturally die out in northern hemisphere?

 

[Earthboy]

It appears all the English beeks are in bed as they should be by now. In Democratic People's Republic of Oklahoma, you must have minimum three frames (Langs) of bees BEFORE the flow, which starts in April. Till then you must feed, feed, and feed (syrup and pollen) some more to build their numbers. You can feed them right up to the flow so as not to contaminate your crop. Normally bees live about four weeks in summer but in winter they can live up to four-five months. Some argue their longevity correlates with their wing muscle usage: the more often they use, the quicker their demise. Hope your green isle is ready to be pretty again for Irish spring.

 

[Finman]

Quite a question. Bees from Demokratic Kongo to democratic Finland. Sweden is a kingdom. Russia is a big question

 

[Erichalfbee]

It appears all the English beeks are in bed as they should be by now. In Democratic People's Republic of Oklahoma, you must have minimum three frames (Langs) of bees BEFORE the flow, which starts in April. Till then you must feed, feed, and feed (syrup and pollen) some more to build their numbers. You can feed them right up to the flow so as not to contaminate your crop. Normally bees live about four weeks in summer but in winter they can live up to four-five months. Some argue their longevity correlates with their wing muscle usage: the more often they use, the quicker their demise. Hope your green isle is ready to be pretty again for Irish spring.

As a rule UK bees are not fed fed and fed in the spring. It's a really foolproof way to get syrup into your honey.
Some colonies are helped along if they are going on an early OSR crop. The rest of us let the bees decide their pace

 

[user 20297]

Till then you must feed, feed, and feed (syrup and pollen) some more to build their numbers.

When you artificially bump up the number of bees in your colony, doesn't this work against your other management technique of not using treatments against pests?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It appears all the English beeks are in bed as they should be by now. In Democratic People's Republic of Oklahoma, you must have minimum three frames (Langs) of bees BEFORE the flow, which starts in April. Till then you must feed, feed, and feed (syrup and pollen) some more to build their numbers. You can feed them right up to the flow

As Welsh beekeeper (so a little bit closer to the Emerald isle) I would say that is very bad advice

 

[Erichalfbee]

As Welsh beekeeper (so a little bit closer to the Emerald isle) I would say that is very bad advice

Goes against the treatment free ethos a bit too

 

[Hebeegeebee]

What studies have been done to prove/disprove that feeding syrup up to the honey flow does not result in syrup in the honey?

And to answer the question, this year colonies for me are smaller than usual - with a poor late summer/autumn 2020 - and little pollen coming into the hives so far this spring as it's been cold/windy/wet. A nuc would have, say 3 frames of brood and full-sized colony 4 - 5 around now. (Poly boxes might be a little bigger on average). However colonies grow as quickly as they can at this time of year so they can increase rather rapidly. Ask me in a couple of weeks and the answe would be different.

 

[madasafish]

My bees empty the brood box of honey in spring and I assume they use the space in a flow to store nectar (observation). So it is likely any sugar solution in the brood box will ned up diluted in the super.. eventually.

I find it difficult to reconcile being TF and not feeding honey - and only honey - to bees.

After all, if the aim is to gain freedom from chemicals, sugar is a refined chemical and unnatural?

 

[drdrday]

Hello Fizzle,
I would argue that it's less important exactly how many frames you have when you open up (this depends on where exactly you are, what the weather's been like, as well as the individual bee colony), but more how well they are building up, from whatever size they started out at, over the next few weeks.
A good healthy colony should be building up well in numbers, ready to work hard and in volume throughout the spring flow. So for me it's more of a comparative measure over time than a definite '3 frames of brood now, 6 frames of brood in 3 weeks time' etc. Some colonies might seem 'stronger' in early spring, but not build up as quickly as a another colony which started from lower numbers.

 

[gmonag]

It appears all the English beeks are in bed as they should be by now. In Democratic People's Republic of Oklahoma, you must have minimum three frames (Langs) of bees BEFORE the flow, which starts in April. Till then you must feed, feed, and feed (syrup and pollen) some more to build their numbers. You can feed them right up to the flow so as not to contaminate your crop. Normally bees live about four weeks in summer but in winter they can live up to four-five months. Some argue their longevity correlates with their wing muscle usage: the more often they use, the quicker their demise. Hope your green isle is ready to be pretty again for Irish spring.

There is no "must" about it. I don't feed at all.

 

[Earthboy]

Our flow lasts only two and a half months, treatment or not. Without feeding, you cannot have any surplus. But never fed HFCS, though, which is known to shorten bee's life. Not all places, around the globe, are "natural" or "ideal" to keep bees albeit we humans push them. 2 1/2 months out of 12 months is really a short window of opportunity; hence, I planted hundreds of Vitex on my ten acre. There is no such a thing as a fall flow. Housing development and other human encroachment got rid of most goldenrod and fall aster stands.

We do have alfalfa year round where I keep one yard. But the grower must bale it at 15% bloom (he bales as many as seven times a year) as the legume, at that point, contains most nutrient for dairy cows. Why do I have a yard there, then? When the field is in bloom yet too wet to work on, my bees can benefit from it; that happens,say once a year, if I am lucky. This year, he said, he would be re-seeding his fields at the last bloom so I can expect some late fall forage.

This shortness in flow explains how difficult it is to keep a commercial operation in my area. You can have 1000 colonies but where are you going to put them on? Never seen bees working on ubiquitous Bermuda blades, either. Yes, our weather is warm, if not hot in summer and mild in winter, throughout the year but there is nothing for the bees to work on starting mid July and forward. I am jealous if your flow lasts longer. And you don't know how lucky you are.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Our flow lasts only two and a half months, treatment or not. Without feeding, you cannot have any surplus. But never fed HFCS, though, which is known to shorten bee's life. Not all places, around the globe, are "natural" or "ideal" to keep bees albeit we humans push them. 2 1/2 months out of 12 months is really a short window of opportunity; hence, I planted hundreds of Vitex on my ten acre. There is no such a thing as a fall flow. Housing development and other human encroachment got rid of most goldenrod and fall aster stands.

We do have alfalfa year round where I keep one yard. But the grower must bale it at 15% bloom as the legume, at that point, contains most nutrient for dairy cows. Why do I have a yard there, then? When the field is in bloom yet too wet to work on, my bees can benefit from it; that happens,say once a year, if I am lucky. This year, he said, he would be re-seeding his fields at the last bloom so I can expect some late fall forage.

This shortness in flow explains how difficult it is to keep a commercial operation in my area. You can have 1000 colonies but where are you going to put them on? Never seen bees working on ubiquitous Bermuda blades, either. Yes, our weather is warm, if not hot in summer and mild in winter, throughout the year but there is nothing for the bees to work on starting mid July and forward. I am jealous if your flow lasts longer. And you don't know how lucky you are.

What do you feed and have you ever checked your honey for it?

 

[Earthboy]

Pure cane sugar, currently sells for $2.00 per 4 lbs bag. No I have not analyzed the sugar content in my honey in a lab, but I do know most of the feed is gone to raise brood as I do not put on supers while feeding.

 

[Earthboy]

When you artificially bump up the number of bees in your colony, doesn't this work against your other management technique of not using treatments against pests?

You raise a good point here, but since I have not treated my bees for nearly 20 or more years, my feeding and being treatment free have never crossed my mind in a negative way. I still do believe, by feeding, I am simply channeling honeybees' innate instinct, for example, to maximize their numbers right before the flow, and not going against their hard-wired nature, feeling like I am an indentured servant helping out their innate seasonal need.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Now this is where I get stuck. Do bees have an innate instinct to maximise their colony size before a flow? Do they actually know there will be one or are they simply opportunists? I know a hopelessly queenless colony will still forage for pollen and fill a brood box with it.
Bees will take down syrup in spring and summer till there is no room for the queen to lay and swarm.

 

[Earthboy]

>Do bees have an innate instinct to maximise their colony size before a flow?

If not, why do they expand their numbers in the spring? Why not in the fall or in winter for that matter?

They start with a small cluster of brood even in late December as if to anticipate the incoming flow, perhaps sensing the lengthening sunlight?

 

[Finman]

If I have 3 frames bees after winter, it will not become a productive hive by its own. I must gather one box of brood from other hives at the beginning of May, and that hive can bring 100 kg honey.

If I make the same size hive at the beginning of June, that hive does not bring much honey. I can give the brood box to the another hive and it gets home bees for main yields.

Our yield season is normally 2 months. Note bad and rainy days! Often rain is essential to get yield.

Colonies must bee big after winter, if you are going to get yield in June. It means that you much succeed well in varroa control.

Rasberry is a good honey plant. It can give 7 kg honey in a day. But the colony must be in full force in the middle on June.

 

[user 20297]

Wow! @Finman; your beekeeping is difficult and I understand how the feeding works for you. But you're obviously not in the TF category of beekeepers. Everyone will be envious of the size of your honey crop.

 

[oliver90owner]

Do bees have an innate instinct to maximise their colony size before a flow? Do they actually know there will be one or are they simply opportunists?

Dani,

Bees’ aims in life are two-fold - to reproduce and to survive. Those two traits/characteristics are not favoured by beekeepers. Bees will happily over-winter on a single deep National (I personally prefer 14 x 12). Beekeepers want the bees to collect and store a large excess of stores - throughout the summer and not just in the autumn.

Bees are opportunists - they forage ‘excessively’ if it is there and they have sufficient numbers to process that window of opportunity. Beekeepers try to marry those two criteria - but often fail for the OSR (a man-made foraging crop) because there are too few foragers to collect/store the available crop over and above the needs of colo

My bees most certainly forage on ivy late in the year - how much of this goes for their winter stores, I know not - but considerable some seasons. Leaving the brood box honey (mostly) intact, and only harvesting any excess over, that seems to be fairly adequate for their winter survival.

RAB