Open Mesh Floors

[REDWOOD]

I believe B Adam toyed with insulation but found that without they built up quicker in the spring. I think he had been there done it and wore the baseball cap and the tee shirt, what an inspiration to all beekeepers

 

[BBG]

I believe B Adam toyed with insulation but found that without they built up quicker in the spring. I think he had been there done it and wore the baseball cap and the tee shirt, what an inspiration to all beekeepers

Do you know where B Adam says that?

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I spoke to BA about this in the late 70s as I had had an interest in this topic. He tried several different sorts of ventilation / floors in the 30s but they were not for him and his favoured type is well documented but like many things he tried it and made his choice. Bernhard Mobus also discussed this with me and pointed me in the direction of Sparsholt and Wedmores book on hive ventilation (Beecraft publication late 40s, 47?). Most of my conversation with BM was on Queen rearing then. Both conversations were probably 79 or 80, tis a while ago now. It ain't a new topic as some have said already, and the UK were slow on the uptake but I use OMF now but that does not mean that bees cannot be cared for well on solid floors, you just change your style according to what you use.

 

[REDWOOD]

It was in one of his book he was referring to insulation used in colder climates and he had tried it and hindered brood early in the season

 

[Ely]

I started beekeeping with one nuc last summer. Grew it up in a commercial with open mess floor. It flourished and has survived winter very strongly. Late last summer I aquired a swarm from another member and that also grew healthy and big enough to go into winter with extra insulation down the sides. That has also survived winter and is a strong colony. Both collecting pollen very actively in warm weather. In my experience my open mesh floor has had no negative effects at all. At least so far.

I wouldnt want to have to put up with intermittent condensation problems that other members with solid floors seem to have.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I believe B Adam toyed with insulation but found that without they built up quicker in the spring.

For the double walled mating boxes on Dartmoor, B Adam did use top insulation.

 

[REDWOOD]

I was at Buckfast Abbey last march, Do they still keep bees there and breed bees, I would have loved to have a look but did not like to ask the busy monks

 

[Hivemaker.]

I was at Buckfast Abbey last march, Do they still keep bees there and breed bees, I would have loved to have a look but did not like to ask the busy monks

No they have no longer breed Buckfast queens,they still have a few hives of bees,but concentrate more on teaching new beekeepers.

 

[REDWOOD]

Do the brothers teach the newbees and the wealth of info past on

 

[Hivemaker.]

Do the brothers teach the newbees and the wealth of info past on

No wealth of info left there anymore, with regards breeding the Buckfast bee. A wealth of info on tonic wine though i suspect.

 

[REDWOOD]

All good things come to an end or as my fly fishing teacher once sad about a fish that go away "god give thus and god take thus away" to to good on old English spelling !!!

 

[Into the lions den]

You would think that if the colony didn't like the ventilation they would propolise the holes in the mesh? Has anyone ever had this happen?

Rich.

Yes, but may have been only one or two hives out of 2000 or so on omfs. These were heavy propolisers anyway, and some caucasian ancestry was suspected.

( Despite some using it as evidence of carni blood, it is in fact a caucasian trait, and those bees can even reduce their entrance to a couple of popholes in winter, and have combs dripping with the stuff in season, and big elastic propolis attachments at the bottom corners of the broodnest frames adjacent to the entrance.)

Oh, just remembered, we had ONE colony that coated 90% of the mesh with wax, drew short vertical cells up off it, and seemed to use it as a sort of water repository. Nothing so odd as bees.

 

[Tim1606]

Yes, but may have been only one or two hives out of 2000 or so on omfs. These were heavy propolisers anyway, and some caucasian ancestry was suspected.

( Despite some using it as evidence of carni blood, it is in fact a caucasian trait, and those bees can even reduce their entrance to a couple of popholes in winter, and have combs dripping with the stuff in season, and big elastic propolis attachments at the bottom corners of the broodnest frames adjacent to the entrance.)

Oh, just remembered, we had ONE colony that coated 90% of the mesh with wax, drew short vertical cells up off it, and seemed to use it as a sort of water repository. Nothing so odd as bees.

Funny you should say that, as one of our overwintered nucs has reduced it's entrance down from a full width slot to just an inch.

 

[Eyeman]

BTW does your sheet of kingspan inside your roof make direct contact with the crownboard when in-situ? if not then CB is still a site of heat loss and condensation

The kingspan sits within the frame in the base of the roof- so there will be a 6mm gap between it and the crown board.

My colonies overwinter in a relatively small cluster- When I treat with oxalic acid around the new year most have 4-6 seams of bees with the odd 7 or 8 seams.
I don't have a major problem keeping them alive over winter- what works for me is getting the Apiguard on early enough so that the queen has time to start laying again before winter sets in.
My problem is a slow spring buildup because of the small size of the colony, especially if they have been through a long cold winter. A solid floor after the oxalic acid treatment may make spring buildup easier.
Alec

 

[drstitson]

my 460x460x50mm kingspan sits directly on the solid polycarbonate crownboards and then the roof sits on top of that as per normal with air gap above the kingspan.

 

[user 6228]

I understand they have been around in some cases since at least the 1950s. Wooden hives of course.

and to derekm..

the omf aids ventilation by the bees rather than hinders it by being a shortcut back to outside...........not the case at all.

The bees set up a ventilation channel to their preference that draws the fresh air right up the hive, and back out again. Fanning is not just at the entrance. They draw the air in through the omf too, and in fact you see considerably LESS strong fanning at the entrance in hives on omfs rather than more, as would be the case if the omf was hindering them.

the bees fanning on the mesh floor?
if so what was their body posture?

Fanning behavoiur at the entrance is defeated by an OMF.
What the bees do instead is interesting and how hey know to do it is very interesting. The adaptive little blighters have alternate behaviours. An OMF means the behavoiurs for Tree nest are not effective so do they adopt the cooling behaviour for a swarm or those of colony camped in a bush? or something else?

 

[BBG]

Derekm

Does your imitation tree contain the aforementioned, wicking away ,here half way down under sub-heading 'Hollow tree'

http://tinyurl.com/7hednmz

 

[user 6228]

Derekm

Does your imitation tree contain the aforementioned, wicking away ,here half way down under sub-heading 'Hollow tree'

http://tinyurl.com/7hednmz

no it doesnt ... thats for another project... understanding the airflow, light and temperature properties of the empty cavity of tree compared to hives is the start.

 

[Into the lions den]

the bees fanning on the mesh floor?
if so what was their body posture?

Their posture is just as it is at the entrance....some one way, some the other, and, just as for the entrances on solid floors, some parts of the area are fresh air in, some are old air out. The effect is most noticeable in the condensation pattern on a chilly morning during a strong nectar flow.

Fanning behavoiur at the entrance is defeated by an OMF.

It is not defeated, but takes place less (still goes on though, as the entrance is another, perhaps less easy, route for air circulation). It is more like an *enhanced* ventilation than a thing that is defeated. Would the bees choose a slot across the lower front of the hive as their preferred airhole? Probably not, but hey, do they actually choose on the basis of airholes at all?

The adaptive little blighters have alternate behaviours.

Yep............and we, the beekeepers, are guilty of thinking we can design in for every need.......even needs they do not have but our anthropomorphism leads us to think they do.

An OMF means the behavoiurs for Tree nest are not effective so do they adopt the cooling behaviour for a swarm or those of colony camped in a bush? or something else?

Tree nests are probably no more than a 'needs must' situation for the bees. They generally cope with what they can find. A hive on an omf is certainly not like an open bush colony. It is constrained on all four sides and on top so actually its quite warm there.

..

 

[adrian wilford]

same with mine