Open Mesh Floors

[user 6228]

Is that like a bulb?

yes heat but no light

 

[Hivemaker.]

yes heat but no light

Very similar to my experiment last year then Derek.

 

[user 6228]

Very similar to my experiment last year then Derek.

what was the experiment and the results?

 

[Hivemaker.]

It is in this thread below,there was no top ventilation. I was going to repeat this experiment this winter,but never got round to it,though this time it was going to be with four hives with bees,two with top insulation, two without.
Will get round to doing it some time...in wooden hives of course.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8117&highlight=snow+melt+back

 

[Nellie]

Never used solid floors, but did take a straw poll of a few 'keepers who been around since PV (pre-Varroa) and asked them, "If Varroa disappeared tomorrow would you go back to solid floors?".

Not found any takers so far.

Ventilation and helping keep the floors free from crud, especially over winter, are the main reasons they all gave.

 

[Eyeman]

Solid floors advantages?
1. For all nucs- especially those being over wintered
2. If you want a nice strong colony in spring closing off the floor after any oxalic treatment in winter seems to get the queen into laying.
3. Weak colonies / diseased colonies are more likely to get through the winter in a warmer environment.- probably a bad thing?
4. A warmer hive so less risk of isolation starvation.
Solid floors disadvantages?
1. Reduced ventilation & increased risk of damp
2. A more active overwintering colony so more food consumption
3. Varroa mites can climb back up
4. difficulty monitoring varroa drop

Like most of the other posts my preference is for OMF and top insulation- I use a 25mm piece of kingspan (a 50mm thick sheet cut in half)inserted into the roof of my national hive so no need for an eke. Whether I should really be using 2" rahter than the 1" I'm not sure. My gut feeling is my local bees adapt well to the local weather so only need a bit of mollycoddling overwinter- Italians may benefit more from the extra thickness.
I am tempted to close the floor after oxalic treatment to get them to build up sooner for the spring flow and early breeding.
Alec

 

[Stiffy]

I use mesh floors on all mine with insulation above but then place the hive on a concrete slab, effectivly adding another floor and reducing the amount of air flow. The bees do well using this system but I do wonder if they would be just as happy on a solid floor?
S

 

[drstitson]

"top insulation- I use a 25mm piece of kingspan (a 50mm thick sheet cut in half)inserted into the roof of my national hive so no need for an eke. Whether I should really be using 2" rather than the 1" I'm not sure. My gut feeling is my local bees adapt well to the local weather so only need a bit of mollycoddling overwinter- Italians may benefit more from the extra thickness."

provided your roofs are deep enough an eke isn't needed!

IMHO although more insulation will further reduce heat losses a far more important role for the top insulation is simply to ensure CB is much warmer than other "external" hive surfaces meaning that any condensation occurs away from the cluster (ie on inner walls where it can run down and out the OMF.

BTW does your sheet of kingspan inside your roof make direct contact with the crownboard when in-situ? if not then CB is still a site of heat loss and condensation.

 

[user 6228]

It is in this thread below,there was no top ventilation. I was going to repeat this experiment this winter,but never got round to it,though this time it was going to be with four hives with bees,two with top insulation, two without.
Will get round to doing it some time...in wooden hives of course.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8117&highlight=snow+melt+back

I think its important to have a similar level of heat output compared to the bees hence the use of 5W to 20W,
because of the convection currents involved and also the temperatures show you clearly the differences experienced by the bees.
I will repeat your experiment but with ~20W and so compare a tree nest with a standard Cedar hive with and without top insulation, with and without OMF with and without topvent/entrance.
The trial run showed I had to "propolise" the tree nest (I used tape) and seal the internal seams, maybe those bees know their stuff

 

[keith pierce]

I have always put my insert back into the open mesh floors around december as where i am living our main flow is in may and my idea was to to retain the heat and get them to build up quicker. This year i went into the winter with about 70 stocks. I have so far checked about 50 and the stronest one was a hive that i had no insert for and went through the winter on a complete open mesh floor. Looks like the way to go.

 

[Finman]

.
50 y solid floors and will be
24 y polyhives
10 mm wooden inner cover + 7 cm foam plastic mattres (recycled)
15 mm upper entrance
50 y dampness more or less. Dampness does not kill bees but stupid beekeepers kill

9 y heated bottoms in Spring + 22 y pollen patty

Beekeepers have allways played with their "superior bottoms" but bottoms does not bring honey.

I renew my bottoms: solid floor, insulated, slanting 5 cm ---> easy to maintain and clean.


.

 

[BBG]

Finman
"Dampness does not kill bees but stupid beekeepers kill"

V true, an old man on the allotments

'thinks he knows how to keep bees and advised by an expert of 40 years standing"

has just successfully managed to murder his third lot in three years.

Fed one quart of syrup in autumn to last them the winter

No treatment in order to let them toughen up

Opened them up once a week in December, January and February to make sure they weren't going to swarm

All under, according to him "expert guidance from a beekeeper of 40 years"

Thankfully, he's not going to keep any more as it's too expensive.


- - - - - -

OMF here too - all stock thrives with fresh air, reduced dampness etc


PH

"They came in to the UK via poly hives in the early 80's."

Took 'woodies' a bit longer to find them


http://tinyurl.com/7bsnr2g

 

[Finman]

Opened them up once a week in December, January and February to make sure they weren't going to swarm
]

We have often animal protection cases that old people can not take care either themselves or cows or horses. Can't help them...

 

[YorkshireBees]

Lat winter (2010/11) was the worst for a long time.
We had 2 long periods of snow on ground and very low temps.
All my colonies survived just fine with OMF's left open the whole time.

I overwintered 6 colonies 2010/11 on OMF's with inspection tray removed. all survived. Started to use top insulation on some hives after reading about t's use on this forum.

So far 2011/12 13 colonies overwintered on OMF's same as above but all had top insulation and all seemed to have survived fine up to date!

I have no real comparison to solid floors as when I took over the hives from my father, the 1st thing I did was invest in OMF's and change them all over believing it would help with varroa.

 

[jallen]

OMF all the way

 

[Into the lions den]

They came in to the UK via poly hives in the early 80's.

I understand they have been around in some cases since at least the 1950s. Wooden hives of course.

and to derekm..

the omf aids ventilation by the bees rather than hinders it by being a shortcut back to outside...........not the case at all.

The bees set up a ventilation channel to their preference that draws the fresh air right up the hive, and back out again. Fanning is not just at the entrance. They draw the air in through the omf too, and in fact you see considerably LESS strong fanning at the entrance in hives on omfs rather than more, as would be the case if the omf was hindering them.

 

[Chris58]

We have open mesh floor here in France. Weather mid-Feb dropped to minus 20 some days, 4-6 ins of snow and temp. didn't go above minus for around 2 weeks. Had no insulation on hive - just fondant block.
Opened hive Monday, seem to be thriving.
Can't say more than that.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I understand they have been around in some cases since at least the 1950s. Wooden hives of course.

I believe B Adam was trialing them as far back as the 1930's.

 

[Rich0909]

You would think that if the colony didn't like the ventilation they would propolise the holes in the mesh? Has anyone ever had this happen?

Rich.

 

[Nightynight]

You would think that if the colony didn't like the ventilation they would propolise the holes in the mesh? Has anyone ever had this happen?

Rich.

simples