Only using vaporized Oxalic and not other treatments

[Falesh]

Is it possible to just use vaporized oxalic acid as your varroa treatment and not bother with others like thymol? For example do the usual christmas treatment with oxalic but also do the fall treatment with 3 doses of vaporized oxalic rather then thymol.

I am wondering as I got a lot of very late nectar that I would like to take from the hive. But if I leave it too late to add the thymol the temperature goes too low for it to be effective.

 

[For want of a better word]

My own methodology of combating varroa is to treat with Apiguard ( a Thymol based product) in the Autumn whilst the temp is high enough. Then following on add thymol to the 2:1 winter feed ( Hivemakers Recipe)

I do not trickel OA as I do not like to open colonies up in the deep winter.

If in the Spring I notice varroa on the inspection board 9 I put it in for a day once the bees are flying well) I Vaporise with 2g of OA

Also ... not seen in recent years except in collected swarms that are kept in an isolation apiary... I treat any suspicion of Deformed Wing with Hiveclean... and also vaporise OA

Swarms also get vaporised with OA a couple of days after collection.

Tis controversial, but my own experience shows that there is brood present all year round, nothing seems to be 100% effective!


Hope this helps you to develop you own IPCR.


Yeghes da

 

[Nige.Coll]

You can only use OA vapourisation to control varroa.

Acarine is reduced by thymol from what I have read, can't find anything that says if OA vapourisation effects Acarine.

 

[alanf]

Might be possible but ruling out everything else is like having only a hammer in your tool box. At the least, keep an eye on mite levels at regular intervals with drop counts, drone forking etc.

 

[Falesh]

Might be possible but ruling out everything else is like having only a hammer in your tool box. At the least, keep an eye on mite levels at regular intervals with drop counts, drone forking etc.

I'm not ruling things out, I will use any treatment that is necessary. One thing that would definitely rule it out would be evidence of varroa building up resistance to OA vaporization. Does anyone know if there been any evidence of this happening?

 

[itma]

Surely the question is of the effect of repeat vapourised Oxalic on open brood - and the trade-off is between damage from the treatment against damage from the mites?



The idea of midwinter treatment is to hit the mites when there is no sealed brood to hide in, and any lost brood is of very very little consequence.

However, Autumn brood is about delivering Winter bees. Treatment for varroa should ensure that those bees are as healthy as possible, and the cost of loosing brood at that time could be of great consequence to winter survival chances.


"To the man with a hammer, all problems look like a nail".
There are a variety of useful varroa treatments available SPECIFICALLY because NO one treatment method is ideal under all circumstances.
Do you have one set of clothes and wear an identical outfit whatever the season?

There is no good reason to restrict yourself to only one treatment option.

 

[Falesh]

The only info I have found so far on OA vaporization is that it doesn't harm brood.

Like I said I am not ruling any treatments out. I posted here because of that, I want to know if there is an advantage to using thymol in autumn rather then just sticking with OA vaporization. I would like to have a reason to use thymol rather then just using it because a lot of people do if you see what I mean.

 

[mbc]

Thymol has a more protracted effect, it lingers so that it catches emerging varroa and I believe it makes many mites infertile as well as killing those that it overwhelms, whereas vaporized oxalic has a very short time before moisture and passage of bees dissipates the condensed crystals and so newly emerging mites are largely unaffected.
Thymol is better when there's brood, oxalix when there's not, oversimplified maybe, but that's how i see it.

 

[Arfermo]

The only info I have found so far on OA vaporization is that it doesn't harm brood.

Like I said I am not ruling any treatments out. I posted here because of that, I want to know if there is an advantage to using thymol in autumn rather then just sticking with OA vaporization. I would like to have a reason to use thymol rather then just using it because a lot of people do if you see what I mean.

It won't if there ain't any - as in mid winter!!!!

 

[Erichalfbee]

The only info I have found so far on OA vaporization is that it doesn't harm brood.

Like I said I am not ruling any treatments out. I posted here because of that, I want to know if there is an advantage to using thymol in autumn rather then just sticking with OA vaporization. I would like to have a reason to use thymol rather then just using it because a lot of people do if you see what I mean.

I have customised my floors so that I can vaporise oxalic from under the OMF at the back of the hive. I too am interested in using Oxalic in the autumn. Hivemaker has mentioned that three treatments five days apart will hit most mites without harming the brood. I am going to try that on one colony this year.

 

[jd101k2000]

While Oxalic Acid vaporisation seems to be the best thing since sliced bread, there are some folk who are worried about its long-term health effects on the bee keeper. Effective safety masks are more than £50. (You are using them, aren't you?)

Having seen it in use, the dosing seems approximate at best, so I remain convincing that it is *reliably* effective. For instance, if I treat and there are 1000 varroa dead on the inspection board. It looks good, but I have no way of knowing if that is a 99% kill rate or a 50% kill rate. In the former case, happy days, in the latter case I may still have a significant problem that needs treating.

While there will be those who say that you have the same doubt with other treatments, the point about the others is that they have been tested and the dosing is accurate.

You pays your money and you makes your choice.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Effective safety masks are more than £50. (You are using them, aren't you?)

Army surplus full face chemical warefare masks available for as little as £7.50.

 

[jd101k2000]

That's a useful tip... bet that not many people are using them.

 

[Hivemaker.]

That's a useful tip... bet that not many people are using them.

Does make a beekeeper look a bit scary..lol.

 

[jd101k2000]

I was just trying to help you get to your 10,000th post... 5 more to go!

 

[ugcheleuce]

One thing that would definitely rule it out would be evidence of varroa building up resistance to OA vaporization. Does anyone know if there been any evidence of this happening?

At beekeeping school we were taught that the mites can't build up resistance to organic acids. If I understand correctly, it works like this: Using acid causes injuries in the mites (so those that die, die from weakness), whereas using other chemicals simply makes them ill (so those that die, die from not having natural resistance to the thing that makes them ill). Successive generations of survivors who didn't suffer fatal injuries don't gradually become less prone to injury (if the injury is caused by an outside agent).

However, I can't cite any references for this.

 

[wessexmario]

At beekeeping school we were taught that the mites can't build up resistance to organic acids.

Doesn't sound right to me.

In any population there will be individuals that are more resistant to things than others in the population. (eg: I can pick up things that are far hotter than my other half can)
Because the ones killed first are those that are least resistant, over time the resulting population will comprise of only the descendants of those that had the resistance.

Evolution doesn't create resistance, it filters out those without resistance.
It's the random gene variations that create the variations in resistance, but that has to happen before the impact of the environmental factors killing the weaker ones.

 

[einsteinagogo]

Effective safety masks are more than £50. (You are using them, aren't you?)

<snip>

.

which models are these, do you have a online link, I thought as long as you had the correct mask, with the correct numbers....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

While Oxalic Acid vaporisation seems to be the best thing since sliced bread

Remember that two years ago it was MAQS

 

[einsteinagogo]

Remember that two years ago it was MAQS

and one colony of my bees buggered off with MAQS last year!