One handed queen catcher

[Grant R]

Hi all,

I am new to beekeeping and have taken this year as a learning year (thankfully) with great education and practical support from a neighbour and local association.

I had a question that they were unable to answer confidentiality so I thought I would also ask it here.

We were working with a hive and caught the queen in a one handed queen catcher and everything was fine, did what we needed to do and released her back. Moving onto the second hive and again we caught the queen to mark her. However this time the worker bees behaved very differently to the queen being in the catcher.

My question was - is this behaviour because there is queen pheromone present from the first hive and the worker bees of hive two are reacting to this. Should we use more than one catcher?

Does anyone have an idea if this is coincidence or it is know pheromone in the catcher can upset the next hive?

 

[enrico]

Hi all,

I am new to beekeeping and have taken this year as a learning year (thankfully) with great education and practical support from a neighbour and local association.

I had a question that they were unable to answer confidentiality so I thought I would also ask it here.

We were working with a hive and caught the queen in a one handed queen catcher and everything was fine, did what we needed to do and released her back. Moving onto the second hive and again we caught the queen to mark her. However this time the worker bees behaved very differently to the queen being in the catcher.

My question was - is this behaviour because there is queen pheromone present from the first hive and the worker bees of hive two are reacting to this. Should we use more than one catcher?

Does anyone have an idea if this is coincidence or it is know pheromone in the catcher can upset the next hive?

Not a great lover of them. really easy to injure the queen and the queens seem to be able to escape fairly easily. I use them to catch queen wasps on the cotoneaster!!

 

[Superlativesoul]

That seems plausible to me ,but like you I'm a newbie too ,wonder if a spray of pledge before using again would help in disguising the previous queen .without need for numerous queen catchers,
John

 

[user 20297]

Hi all,

I am new to beekeeping and have taken this year as a learning year (thankfully) with great education and practical support from a neighbour and local association.

I had a question that they were unable to answer confidentiality so I thought I would also ask it here.

We were working with a hive and caught the queen in a one handed queen catcher and everything was fine, did what we needed to do and released her back. Moving onto the second hive and again we caught the queen to mark her. However this time the worker bees behaved very differently to the queen being in the catcher.

My question was - is this behaviour because there is queen pheromone present from the first hive and the worker bees of hive two are reacting to this. Should we use more than one catcher?

Does anyone have an idea if this is coincidence or it is know pheromone in the catcher can upset the next hive?

Hi Grant. It was just last week that I noticed this behaviour when I marked two queens consecutively. The second queen was forced to stay still on a top-bar whilst the bees sniffed around and on top of her. One bee grabbed a wing and stayed gripped-on for the couple of minutes as I watched. I had to put the lid back and hope for the best, but I'm optimistic that things are OK. I had cleaned the catcher in washing soda the week before with an instinct that the equipment would need deodorising occasionally.

 

[Anduril]

I've used the crown of thorns, one handed catcher and the plunger and the queens have been fine. I once had a problem with the one handed catcher when a queen fainted.

 

[user 20297]

Not a great lover of them. really easy to injure the queen and the queens seem to be able to escape fairly easily. I use them to catch queen wasps on the cotoneaster!!

Care is definitely needed, but in comparison with the injuries that butterfingers-me might inflict, the risk is low.
The one I have is calibrated exactly right for an averagely plump queen and it is impossible to squash her.
With a smallish queen I sometimes have to put gentle pressure on the top slats through which you mark her.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Awful gadgets those queen catchers.
I use a Baldock cage (crown of thorns) and have used the same one for years (after the original fell off a hive roof and hid itself between two rocks at the castle apiary) always been kept in the same airtight tin in my pocket, I've never washed or 'de-odourised' it and never witnessed this phenomenon.

 

[Grant R]

Thank you all for your comments. It seems it’s not well known but has been maybe seen by others.

I will also look at the Crown of thrones for a comparison.

 

[Sutty]

If you're going to use one of these have a look here

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/queen-catcher-clip-handling-give-me-a-chance.54316/

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ve seen queens cut in half with a clip at Association apiary. Tried the plunger type for a while but prefer the COT. ( thanks @jenkinsbrynmair, I never know it was called a Baldock Cage)
Lay gently over the queen and allow the workers bees to escape then press down a little to keep queen still.
The best way is to pick her up but I haven’t mastered that yet.

 

[blackcloud]

I'm worried I'd put her 'safely' in my pocket with a catcher -at least with a press in cage she'd go back in on the frame.
You can buy a bagful of them for a fiver on Amazon under "queen cage isolator etc " but if you tap "crown of thorns" into ebay you get lots of Jesus pictures.
It would be nice to see one with slots for easier clipping.

 

[user 20297]

Awful gadgets those queen catchers.
I use a Baldock cage (crown of thorns) and have used the same one for years (after the original fell off a hive roof and hid itself between two rocks at the castle apiary) always been kept in the same airtight tin in my pocket, I've never washed or 'de-odourised' it and never witnessed this phenomenon.

It surprises me that someone who has so much beekeeping experience has not experienced a similar occurrence and that two of us with relatively little experience have done so; maybe we imagined it.?

 

[Anduril]

The only plausible explanation I could come up with is that the one handed queen catcher has a greater surface area that touches the queen leaving a greater amount of pheromone than the crown of thorns. In comparison a farmer would give the skin coat of a dead lamb to another lamb in order for that mother ewe to accept as hers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

( thanks @jenkinsbrynmair, I never know it was called a Baldock Cage)

More interestingly, the inventor, Mr Baldock was not actually a beekeeper
Here's a post from Gill Smith (Thornes) from some time ago.

Mr Baldock lived in Tunbridge Wells. Kent. He wasn't a beekeeper but was an eccentric inventor. I'm not sure but he is probably now no longer with us as he was rather elderly when Paul visited him 30 plus years ago. His machinery is now in use at Rand.

Strange when you think of it - a non beekeeper comes up with a useful and practical bit of kit, whilst you could fill room 101 to the ceiling with dubious kit invented by beekeepers!

 

[Erichalfbee]

It surprises me that someone who has so much beekeeping experience has not experienced a similar occurrence and that two of us with relatively little experience have done so; maybe we imagined it.?

No of course you didn’t imagine it. Maybe folk with lots of colonies and who are busy just don’t have the time to watch intently after each queen marking. I must admit I’ve never seen it either but then I don’t look for it. Mark, dry, release. Move on.

 

[user 20297]

No of course you didn’t imagine it. Maybe folk with lots of colonies and who are busy just don’t have the time to watch intently after each queen marking. I must admit I’ve never seen it either but then I don’t look for it. Mark, dry, release. Move on.

I have lots of colonies of bees a full time job, grandchildren and other consuming interests; so I'm quite busy. But as an attentive beekeeper, when I'm marking a queen-bee I take the time to handle her with care and to check that she is safely returned between frames.
You sound like a robotic beekeeper, "Mark, release. Move on."......How many queen bees do you mark consecutively? I average one every three months. Maybe your AI isn't yet programmed to recognise this behaviour?

 

[Erichalfbee]

It’s a good job we have you in the forum to keep us robots straight, then

 

[Anduril]

It’s a good job we have you in the forum to keep us robots straight, then

 

[Antipodes]

I must admit I’ve never seen it either but then I don’t look for it.

Not everyone needs to specifically look for something to see it. Anyhow, at least no one who has now read the thread can say they've never heard of this happening. Thanks Grant R and Beebe for posting about it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Love it. Much funnier than Beebe.