Has this happened to you?

[RogerIvy]

We had/have two very defensive colonies. Bad case of followers. Really sore stings.

These are the steps we followed:
1. Killed the queens
2. A few days later ordered new queens
3. When the queens arrived, went through all frames and removed all emergency cells (we were very thorough). There were loads of EQCs in both hives - this is a week after killing the queens so now hopelessly queenless
4. Introduced the queens (both with red dots)

In one hive all is well. New queen doing well. Still about two weeks of original bees but already better.
In the other hive there is a queen but I don’t know if she is the introduced one. Still extremely defensive.

So one of three possibilities:
1. We missed a EQC (we were VERY careful but these things do happen)
2. There were always two queens. But why did they make loads of EQCs? Change in pheromones?
3. It is actually the new queen, they have removed her paint and the colony still has loads of defensive bees

Opinions?

 

[emoclewbee]

It sounds like you have seen an umarked Queen in the hive that is still defensive? If that is the case I would imagine you probably missed a QC.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Killed the queens

If you need to do this again, don't kill, but cage her and leave her in between BB top bars for 7 days, after which remove & kill her and introduce the replacement.

The presence of queen pheromone during the 7 days will avoid EQCs, and the absence of open brood will reduce bees' options.

Check frames anyway, before introducing the new.

 

[ericbeaumont]

don’t know if she is the introduced one. Still extremely defensive.

Some colonies change behaviour within a short time, but with others you have to wait six weeks or more for bees with old genetics to die, before behaviour improves.

 

[Ian123]

Don’t give up hope just yet…. Depending what they used to mark her I find a lot of paint often comes off. I introduced a few some weeks ago and whilst 1 or 2 still have the marking most have lost some or all.

 

[RogerIvy]

If you need to do this again, don't kill, but cage her and leave her in between BB top bars for 7 days, after which remove & kill her and introduce the replacement.

The presence of queen pheromone during the 7 days will avoid EQCs, and the absence of open brood will reduce bees' options.

Check frames anyway, before introducing the new.

Thanks, good advice, will try that next time.

Rather than buying another queen this time I may:
1 Cage her for a week
2 Remove her and drop in a frame of eggs from our strongest and friendly hive

It means we’ll possibly not get that much honey from that hive this year but would have gained a little more experience and knowledge.

I’ll do that in about two weeks when all of the original genetics have died out - I’ll first see how they’re doing in case my introduced queen survived.

 

[RogerIvy]

Don’t give up hope just yet…. Depending what they used to mark her I find a lot of paint often comes off. I introduced a few some weeks ago and whilst 1 or 2 still have the marking most have lost some or all.

I considered that. Will see how they look in two weeks.

 

[Ian123]

I considered that. Will see how they look in two weeks.

Check on the uniformity with her sister as am presuming you ordered 1 type from a supplier.

 

[RogerIvy]

Check on the uniformity with her sister as am presuming you ordered 1 type from a supplier.

As the two colonies were very similar we decided to buy two different queens to compare (Ligustica and Buckfast). Bought from two different suppliers as well.

The Ligustica was a fairly small queen with an already faded dot. She was also not moving in her cage like the Buckfast. Looked a bit lethargic. Quite a bit of the fondant was eaten so she may have been caged for some time. The Buckfast queen was lively.

It's my first (and possibly last) experiment with a Ligustica queen. I'm not sure if it was the process/seller/breeded as others have had good success with Ligustica.