Nut allergy labelling

[warsaw_hive]

I see in the latest BBKA magazine Andy Pedley has vaguely raised the issue of adding (for those of us who use domestic kitchens for extracting etc) allergen labelling to our honey. This has been raised on here before and I think unfairly dismissed by the usual posters.

Mr Pedley says this is an important topic but doesn't come to a conclusion on whether we should or not be adding a warning, or any suggested wording which is disappointing.

Personally if I had a nut allergy I'd never buy anything that I hadn't prepared myself. When I used to cater for school parties we had a no nut policy in the kitchen. I'm afraid to say we took dairy allergies less seriously, which in the light of the recent tragic death was probably a mistake.

 

[Sutty]

I can't see a reasonably feasible mechanism of contamination in my setup in my kitchen.
Lots of people have pollen allergy (hayfever) but I've never seen a warning "caution may contain pollen"!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

who?

 

[JamezF]

who?

Andy Pedley. From memory, is or was an EHO for quite some time. Regularly does lectures etc. on labelling and extraction for BKAs and wrote "Food Safety for Beekeepers".

Like Sutty, I can't really see a likely route for contamination when I extract in the kitchen. It's not as though I use the kitchen work surfaces or kitchen implements in the process.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

From memory, is or was an EHO for quite some time.

met someone else like that - a current EHO/beekeeper trying to make a name for himself as a honey extraction guru.
Total idiot (in general, not just in matters beekeeping.)
Same as the OA debacle really, with clowns like that within the BBKA - who needs enemies?

 

[warsaw_hive]

It's actually something we should all be aware of. Like not filling up the bird feeder around supers waiting for extraction. Or pouring out the muesli next to the honey settling tank. And making other people in the family aware of this too. I know some people use ex peanut sacks as top covers which I wince at.

Whether this extends to labelling I'm not sure. Selling at my gate I think it is reasonable to assume it has passed through my domestic kitchen. Whereas it is hard to judge the scale of an operation from honey sold in a shop. I probably would put a warning on then, but whether this should cover more that nut allergies I don't know.

 

[JamezF]

Perhaps if there's a concern that one's product may contain nuts, it shouldn't be (potentially) mislabelled as honey?

James

 

[Eyeman]

There’s a Food Standards Agency food allergy and intolerance online training course. It’s free & you get a certificate.
Cross contamination labelling is a voluntary decision made after an appropriate risk assessment. Here’s what the FSA say;
A Precautionary Allergen Label (PAL) is a statement that food businesses can choose to apply to food products where there is an unavoidable risk of allergen cross-contamination. It is commonly seen as “may contain allergen x” or “not suitable for someone with x allergy” on food products.
A Precautionary Allergen Labelling statement or information [such as ‘may contain’] should only be provided with prepacked or non-prepacked foods if an unavoidable risk of allergen cross-contamination has been identified following a risk assessment that cannot be sufficiently controlled through controls, such as segregation and cleaning.

 

[Paulypaul]

I have a severe allergy to nuts (all aside from cashews and almonds) I'm supposed to carry an epipen with me, everywhere I go.
I've ended up in A&E with anaphylaxis on many occasions.

I can't imagine how a "may contain nuts" label would be at all helpful, unless you suspect there is a realistic possibility of tree nut protein being in your honey. E.g. you're recycling penut butter jars.

The label is usually used when the same machinery has been used to process food with nuts in it. E.g. You also use your Honey extractor to crush nuts.

 

[Sutty]

I have a severe allergy to nuts (all aside from cashews and almonds) I'm supposed to carry an epipen with me, everywhere I go.
I've ended up in A&E with anaphylaxis on many occasions.

I can't imagine how a "may contain nuts" label would be at all helpful, unless you suspect there is a realistic possibility of tree nut protein being in your honey. E.g. you're recycling penut butter jars.

The label is usually used when the same machinery has been used to process food with nuts in it. E.g. You also use your Honey extractor to crush nuts.

Agreed. I think a lot of these labels are simply companies trying to shed liabilities - they could start putting "produced on a continent that also produces nuts".
On a side-matter peanuts aren't tree nuts.

 

[Paulypaul]

On a side-matter peanuts aren't tree nuts.

Ah yes. It's a legume. Cheers.

 

[warsaw_hive]

I have a severe allergy to nuts (all aside from cashews and almonds) I'm supposed to carry an epipen with me, everywhere I go.
I've ended up in A&E with anaphylaxis on many occasions.

If you know you have an allergy, then why are you ending up in A&E multiple times? Surely once is enough?

 

[warsaw_hive]

There’s a Food Standards Agency food allergy and intolerance online training course. It’s free & you get a certificate.
Cross contamination labelling is a voluntary decision made after an appropriate risk assessment. Here’s what the FSA say;
A Precautionary Allergen Label (PAL) is a statement that food businesses can choose to apply to food products where there is an unavoidable risk of allergen cross-contamination. It is commonly seen as “may contain allergen x” or “not suitable for someone with x allergy” on food products.
A Precautionary Allergen Labelling statement or information [such as ‘may contain’] should only be provided with prepacked or non-prepacked foods if an unavoidable risk of allergen cross-contamination has been identified following a risk assessment that cannot be sufficiently controlled through controls, such as segregation and cleaning.

Thanks for this I'll check it out.

It's worth noting the recent deaths (as far as I'm aware) have all been from mislabelling or human error rather than cross contamination.

 

[Paulypaul]

If you know you have an allergy, then why are you ending up in A&E multiple times? Surely once is enough?

Some examples:
People (medical students) making me marmite on toast with the same knife they just used to spread peanut butter onto bread.

Pesto sauce in a fancy takeout that I didn't know had pesto in it (pine nuts).

A takeout from Eat with peanut oil in it, that wasn't labelled as such.

Me being drunk and eating stuff clearly labelled as having nuts in it (in my youth).

My cousin throwing peanuts at my face, for fun (many years ago).

Etc...

 

[warsaw_hive]

Your first three examples are exactly why if had an allergy of any sort I'd never eat out. Restaurants are chaotic places. Some places have a really high churn of staff, they can be very young or one step away from young offenders. It's bonkers to me that you would risk it.

Your last example is interesting though. Presumably you didn't eat any of the peanuts thrown at you. So what is it that triggers a reaction? Smell? Dust?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Your first three examples are exactly why if had an allergy of any sort I'd never eat out. Restaurants are chaotic places. Some places have a really high churn of staff, they can be very young or one step away from young offenders. It's bonkers to me that you would risk it.

Your last example is interesting though. Presumably you didn't eat any of the peanuts thrown at you. So what is it that triggers a reaction? Smell? Dust?

The last example sounds exactly like something out of an episode of the Simpsons I saw a couple of months ago

 

[Aneebe]

Your first three examples are exactly why if had an allergy of any sort I'd never eat out. Restaurants are chaotic places. Some places have a really high churn of staff, they can be very young or one step away from young offenders. It's bonkers to me that you would risk it.

Your last example is interesting though. Presumably you didn't eat any of the peanuts thrown at you. So what is it that triggers a reaction? Smell? Dust?

In my teaching days we had one lass (now a doctor!) with a severe nut allergy. The "lovely" group of boys who resented her academic skills used to deliberately walk past her eating mouthfuls of nuts and blowing on her despite nuts actually being banned on-site. No amount of assemblies, talks, one-on-one attempts to explain the potential fatal outcomes had much of an effect. She had to have an ambulance called several times. Her mum told me it was partly what motivated her to study medicine. I was appalled at her sensitivity to vapour. She only had to be in a canteen with one person chomping nuts, to start to react.

 

[Mint Bee]

If you know you have an allergy, then why are you ending up in A&E multiple times? Surely once is enough?

This is a very naïve understanding of conditions leading to allergenic episodes. Maybe you need to research this further from both an allergy sufferer and food manufacturer perspective before suggesting its a topic having been dismissed here by the usual posters.

I have one friend who has the allergy and another who is cabin crew. If cabin crew know they have a nut allergy sufferer on board they will not serve nuts to passengers. Allergy sufferer felt first stages of anaphylaxis and turned out someone had brought their own nuts on board and despite an announcement stating nuts would not be served due to the presence of an allergy sufferer, decided that it didn't apply to them. the 2 individuals were in different parts of the cabin, so assuming the allergen was carried around on the recirculated air. Luckily the analphalaxis didn't progress and she had 2 EpiPen's available.

 

[warsaw_hive]

This is a very naïve understanding of conditions leading to allergenic episodes. Maybe you need to research this further from both an allergy sufferer and food manufacturer perspective before suggesting its a topic having been dismissed here by the usual posters.

I have one friend who has the allergy and another who is cabin crew. If cabin crew know they have a nut allergy sufferer on board they will not serve nuts to passengers. Allergy sufferer felt first stages of anaphylaxis and turned out someone had brought their own nuts on board and despite an announcement stating nuts would not be served due to the presence of an allergy sufferer, decided that it didn't apply to them. the 2 individuals were in different parts of the cabin, so assuming the allergen was carried around on the recirculated air. Luckily the analphalaxis didn't progress and she had 2 EpiPen's available.

I swear you troll every thread I contribute to, and that mixed up reply is a perfect example.

I know enough about allergies to know that people dying on planes due to breathing in peanut vapours is a myth. And having double checked that I've convinced myself than an allergy warning on honey jars is unnecessary.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I swear you troll every thread I contribute to

and there's me thinking from the comments in the OP, and numerous since, that this thread was started as an attempt to troll