Not treating varroa

[B+.]

I am reminded of a saying: keep on doing what you always did and you'll always get what you always got.
If you keep treating, you'll never know any other way.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I am reminded of a saying: keep on doing what you always did and you'll always get what you always got.
If you keep treating, you'll never know any other way.

I know of lots of beekeepers that carried on doing what they always did when varroa arrived, they didn't carry on getting what they always got.

 

[B+.]

I know of lots of beekeepers that carried on doing what they always did when varroa arrived, they didn't carry on getting what they always got.

Absolutely. That's exactly the point!
When I stopped, I lost colonies too. Then I went completely over to carnica and gradually things started happening. The chalkbrood disappeared. The yields went up. The varroa became less and less of a problem. It's been a long road, but, the bees I have now do fine without treatment.
Before anyone says I am advocating this to everyone, I am not. If your stock is susceptible, keep treating...but get some that is less susceptible.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Absolutely.
When I stopped, I lost colonies too. Then I went completely over to carnica and gradually things started happening. The chalkbrood disappeared. The yields went up. The varroa became less and less of a problem. It's been a long road, but, the bees I have now do fine without treatment.
Before anyone says I am advocating this to everyone, I am not. If your stock is susceptible, keep treating...but get some that is less susceptible.

The downside was, front lawn covered in unicorn sh!t

 

[Levitt53]

Surely keeping bees treatment free should be the aim of beekeeping as a whole (surely why would you not want to get to a place where you don't need to treat with chemicals). There is a whole movement of people of keep bees treatment free and do it by keeping lots of colonies, breading from those that thrive and letting those that can't deal with varroa die off. B+ clearly has a lot of experience and success and this should be applauded. Treating regardless of need surely is more dangerous.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There is a whole movement of people of keep bees treatment free and do it by keeping lots of colonies.

And leaving loads to die.

it's like the terrible scourge of the anti vaxers

'I didn't vaccinate my kids - the ones that lived are fine'

 

[B+.]

The downside was, front lawn covered in unicorn sh!t

Believe what you like. You will anyway.

 

[For want of a better word]

Surely keeping bees treatment free should be the aim of beekeeping as a whole (surely why would you not want to get to a place where you don't need to treat with chemicals). There is a whole movement of people of keep bees treatment free and do it by keeping lots of colonies, breading from those that thrive and letting those that can't deal with varroa die off. B+ clearly has a lot of experience and success and this should be applauded. Treating regardless of need surely is more dangerous.

Ask that question to a parent who has a child with measles mumps or rubella.........

.... or a Pig farmer who has just had all his stock culled due to a disease that could be prevented.......

Is it really that difficult to threat a colony for Varroa????
I remember Randy Oliver telling us about the hobby keeper in California who would not treat and how he produced the Varroa bomb!!!

 

[For want of a better word]

The downside was, front lawn covered in unicorn sh!t

Really.....
Must get some to put on the Rhubarb... would it be available from one of our Teutonic neighbors in Europe.... have not seen it in any catalogues... perhaps you have to sign up to some specialist breeder group to get it???

Or is this an April Fool's Day joke???

 

[blackcloud]

With my vast experience of three whole month's (including one of those actually having bees) I am firmly keeping an open mind
But I will throw in another incendiary however
There is mention in this of human vaccine such as MMR
We are aware that our own antibiotics will soon become ineffective due to developing immunity of the target and the NBU has stopped recommending the initial varroa treatments so surely it's inevitable down the line that the chemicals will stop working.
I'd rather be ahead of the game than depending on someone else to provide a solution.

 

[Levitt53]

Ask that question to a parent who has a child with measles mumps or rubella.........

.... or a Pig farmer who has just had all his stock culled due to a disease that could be prevented.......

Is it really that difficult to threat a colony for Varroa????
I remember Randy Oliver telling us about the hobby keeper in California who would not treat and how he produced the Varroa bomb!!!

I think I can be allowed to treat my children different to my bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the NBU has stopped recommending the initial varroa treatments so surely it's inevitable down the line that the chemicals will stop working.
.

Technically OA isn't a chemical treatment in the true sense - it burns the mite's legs off. I think it will be a wee while before they get immune to amputation.

Gunpowder has been around for quite a few centuries now - I have yet to hear of any studies that find people are getting immune to gunshot wounds, or High Explosives for that matter

 

[Beefriendly]

so surely it's inevitable down the line that the chemicals will stop working.
.

If you take oxalic acid it kills varroa in so many different ways from dissolving their feed to acidfying their blood that it highly improbable they could evolve to tolerate it's action.

So no, it's not inevitable.

 

[foghornleghorn]

There was a suggestion (based on research into the Swindon bees and their benign form DWV that allowed them to survive), that other areas might exist where benign forms of DWV might dominate....allowing colonies to survive.
However this all need confirming at a scientific level. Without understanding how they are surviving but suggesting non treatment for all is a little [understatement off] irresponsible.

Even with the benign dwv non treatment would still be risky without bees that actively reduce varroa themselves, a new strain of virus could be very catastrophic otherwise.

Wouldn't be surprised if there was viruses in Ron hoskins or b+'s bees that had a negative effect on varroa which helped keep their numbers in check

 

[B+.]

Wouldn't be surprised if there was viruses in Ron hoskins or b+'s bees that had a negative effect on varroa which helped keep their numbers in check

The difference is that Ron Hoskins has high varroa levels. I don't. The mechanism is interruption of the mite reproductive cycle which keeps the mite population low. Fewer mites equates to a lower potential for virus transfer.

 

[Teebeeaitch]

Each to their own but I do find the finger wagging attitude a little irritating. If someone is treatment free, has bees in a small garden, or doesn’t carry out 7 day inspections for swarm control, they are branded irresponsible. C’mon, lighten up a bit.

 

[GuyNir]

Each to their own but I do find the finger wagging attitude a little irritating. If someone is treatment free, has bees in a small garden, or doesn’t carry out 7 day inspections for swarm control, they are branded irresponsible. C’mon, lighten up a bit.

You forgot being irresponsible with their kids also...

 

[Walrus]

Ask that question to a parent who has a child with measles mumps or rubella.........

.... or a Pig farmer who has just had all his stock culled due to a disease that could be prevented.......

Is it really that difficult to threat a colony for Varroa????
I remember Randy Oliver telling us about the hobby keeper in California who would not treat and how he produced the Varroa bomb!!!

Speaking of Randy Oliver, this is a good article on this stuff:
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-varroa-problem-part-17c/

 

[Murox]

Does non treatment for varroa mean just leaving it all to chance ?

Does anyone use Thermal treatment for Varroa mites, or any of the integrated pest management systems ? If so what are your experiences and results ?

 

[willthebees]

I have great store in sugar dusting, also drone trapping via two super frames in the brood chamber between April and September.
whilst these are not "stand alone" treatments, they are a none intrusive chemical free means of keeping the count down.
I would think that sugar dusting encourages a natural hygienic tendency in the bees.

I don't see the point of allowing the mite population to reach a critical level ,and then treating.