Not treating varroa

[Lancs Lad]

There is definitely two sides both with valid arguments and expectations. I decided four years ago that I was doing beekeeping wrong. I was breeding AMM and looked at breeding for the hygienic trait and came to the conclusion that I should be breeding for health as my main objective. In this time I have bred off queens from Sussex University which I found to be excellent bees and this year I am bringing in some stock from b+. In this time I have not gone treatment free but just give a December treatment , I usually breed about 40 queens a year, breeding from the best and shooting the rest, there has been a constant improvement in the stocks much more than I expected .

 

[madasafish]

Each to their own but I do find the finger wagging attitude a little irritating. If someone is treatment free, has bees in a small garden, or doesn’t carry out 7 day inspections for swarm control, they are branded irresponsible. C’mon, lighten up a bit.

Having had 6 out of 7 hives catch AFB from the hives a beekeeper never inspected and left to die when he knew he had diseased bees,## I think you will receive little sympathy from me.

So here's " little sympathy"

## proved by DNA analysis.

 

[Levitt53]

Having had 6 out of 7 hives catch AFB from the hives a beekeeper never inspected and left to die when he knew he had diseased bees,## I think you will receive little sympathy from me.

So here's " little sympathy"

## proved by DNA analysis.

This is the last I will say but treatment free is regards to seeing if your bees can live with varroa not rejecting all modern thinking. Why do people assume that treatment free is just abandoning everything, not vaccinating your children, just abandoning hives. What you describe above is something completely different and inexcusable. Treatment free is a technique in the same way that others have beekeeping techniques.

 

[madasafish]

This is the last I will say but treatment free is regards to seeing if your bees can live with varroa not rejecting all modern thinking. Why do people assume that treatment free is just abandoning everything, not vaccinating your children, just abandoning hives. What you describe above is something completely different and inexcusable. Treatment free is a technique in the same way that others have beekeeping techniques.

I was replying to "or doesn’t carry out 7 day inspections for swarm controL" which - in my view -is equivalent to hive abandonment.. in swarming time.

 

[Fritillary]

- and as was pointed out way back in this thread, those who were talking on Saturday about their experiences continue to monitor the varroa levels in their hives, and have had them inspected, as usual.

 

[Murox]

Speaking of Randy Oliver, this is a good article on this stuff:
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-varroa-problem-part-17c/

Thanks for that link Walrus - well worth a read - food for thought.

 

[blackcloud]

Mr Jenkins -immunity to amputation! -that did make me chuckle a bit
But the other treatments are either mechanical which I would favour in some part or true chemical,and in the latter case we cannot be sure of the implications for the bees themselves long term,such as carcinogenesis and events such as the thalydamide disaster in humans.
Last year I drowned all my pet nettles in Roundup because I hate the damn things.
This year I have beehives now and was horrified to read that Glysophate can cut down the queens laying by two thirds.
Perhaps it's the guilt that makes me open minded

I read the Australian guys blog -he had drone trapping and sugar dusting going and reported success with both
His commercial operations time constraint couldn't support one of the activities but he continued with the other
A hobbyist could surely try both as part of a regime before deciding which camp to settle into

 

[birdsandbees]

Funny you should mention Glyphosate, I lost two colonies last year and had severe depletion in another that were situated on the verge of a field that was blanked sprayed with weedkiller before ploughing in, queens dead or dying following the spraying

I agree with many of the comments regarding treatment free, I only use OA sublimation and only will, it's very effective and as far as I can tell has no side effects or avenue for resistance to develop.

The problem is they will never be Varroa free as there will always be someone nearby that doesn't treat whether through deliberate action or pure neglect, so rather than potential elimination of Varroa from these shores if everyone had a very good treatment regime, they will always have a sanctuary in a hive somewhere before the whole distribution starts all over again.

a bit like the majority doing their best to eliminate Asian Hornets then having pockets of people actively breeding them dotted around the country.

 

[Finman]

I read the Australian guys blog -he had drone trapping and sugar dusting going and reported success with both
His commercial operations ....

Australia does not have varroa mites.

What ever, sugar dusting and drone trapping do not save hives from varroa death.

.

 

[For want of a better word]

Funny you should mention Glyphosate, I lost two colonies last year and had severe depletion in another that were situated on the verge of a field that was blanked sprayed with weedkiller before ploughing in, queens dead or dying following the spraying

I agree with many of the comments regarding treatment free, I only use OA sublimation and only will, it's very effective and as far as I can tell has no side effects or avenue for resistance to develop.

The problem is they will never be Varroa free as there will always be someone nearby that doesn't treat whether through deliberate action or pure neglect, so rather than potential elimination of Varroa from these shores if everyone had a very good treatment regime, they will always have a sanctuary in a hive somewhere before the whole distribution starts all over again.

a bit like the majority doing their best to eliminate Asian Hornets then having pockets of people actively breeding them dotted around the country.

Or in a hole in a tree a chimney or a Sun hive under a pyramid!!

 

[Finman]

I have had mites 30 years. I know very well what mites do. They do what mites use to do.

It is rubbish that mites does not kill but viruses kill. As clever as "cold does not kill but moisture kills".

 

[mbc]

Not that I'd dream of doing the same or recommending it I've seen successful beekeepers use roundup to stop anything growing around their pallets of bees

 

[Fritillary]

I don't know how well people get on who treat any varroa they see - and have no beekeeping neighbours. As the treatments we have aren't exactly a solution - they manage rather than completely eradicate varroa in your own hives, don't the mites reappear anyway?
It's pretty dispiriting when you think you've treated acc. to the party line, but still have a colony really going down. That happened to me a couple of years ago. I'd treated the previous winter, and late summer Apiguard seemed not to hit the spot with this one particular colony... Our inspector, who'd come for a routine inspection, was pretty impressed by the damage caused by varroa. I followed up with amitraz, and it did survive. The others were all okay. If this happened again now, I think I'd take all the bees off their brood, never mind the time of year, and vape them.
Now I have a vaporiser, it's no big deal as far as I'm concerned, either in principle or practice, to use that. I don't have many hives, and it's realistic.
It's not sugar shaking etc I'm interested in, but whether people who haven't treated for years are finding that by selecting which colonies they bred from, or something else, they're able to do better.

 

[madasafish]

That happened to me a couple of years ago. I'd treated the previous winter, and late summer Apiguard seemed not to hit the spot with this one particular colony... Our inspector, who'd come for a routine inspection, was pretty impressed by the damage caused by varroa. I followed up with amitraz, and it did survive. The others were all okay. r.

For the past three years, I have had at least one colony every year with a HUGE mitedrop following treatment.. and continuing after treatment and needing further treatment.

I can only assume robbing out other colonies dying from non treatment (feral or otherwise I have no idea).

 

[B+.]

For the past three years, I have had at least one colony every year with a HUGE mitedrop following treatment.. and continuing after treatment and needing further treatment.

I can only assume robbing out other colonies dying from non treatment (feral or otherwise I have no idea).

... or perhaps they had very little/no natural defence themselves - so when they acquired the infestation, they couldn't do anything about it. It's that "needing further treatment" that I find most worrying

 

[Swarm]

Treat your bees, it's as simple as that.

 

[B+.]

Treat your bees, it's as simple as that.

I don't believe that.
How can some bees need no treatment at all and others need multiple treatments? Clearly, there is a difference in their ability to manage varroa by themselves. If there is a difference, that trait can be selected for and improved upon. "It's as simple as that".

 

[blackcloud]

I forgot to mention too that there is the matter of capping and uncapping that was touched upon on Saturday-the bees have allegedly began disrupting the mites life cycle.

Did I mention I had a brilliant day at Builth.....

 

[Fusion_power]

Am I a flat earther? Are my bees unicorns? I haven't treated for mites since 2005. I can assure you that they do not have high mite loads. I also don't monitor for mites. There is no need. Mite resistance is a very real set of traits bees can be bred for.

I do NOT advocate going treatment free with the average bees most keepers have. These bees do not have the traits to keep mites under control. Having neighbors who treat also means problems for treatment free beekeepers. I'm fortunate to be in an area where most of the bees are not treated.

Now if you will excuse me, I've got to distribute queen cells and put some more honey supers on my bees. If I don't get busy I'm going to have bees in the trees instead of bees in the boxes.

I need to frame this quote. "Seen people who have tried and failed."

Also, it is not valid to equate treatment of disease organisms with treatment of pests. Comparing measles to varroa is like comparing JBM to Finman. You just can't do it no matter how hard you try! (note that it is April 1st)

 

[Ian123]

How have you found the influence of africanised bees