newspaper unite question

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i have mostly had great success with newspaper unite

i try to put Q- hive above Q+ hive (i think i read this some time ago on here)

when you need to do the reverse i.e. Q+ hive up top, and the lower Q- hive has supers, i have had two unites fail.

Circumstances when this failed were left for a week and then check UBB and that Q is present and laying and that bees are mixing, then move Q+ box below supers and above LBB.

Twice, i have then gone back and Q has been killed, a good number of times this hasnt happened and she has been fine.

Question...should i consider another unite i.e. use newspaper again when i move Q+ box below supers? or is it just bad luck
 

jenkinsbrynmair

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when you need to do the reverse i.e. Q+ hive up top, and the lower Q- hive has supers, i have had two unites fail
strange - I almost always unite with the Q+ hive on top, often with supers on the Q- side and they've all been fine
 

Swarm

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If you have any doubts, why not unite the supers first? I'm sorting out a drone layer at the moment, it was double brood and three supers. The original queen is next door in a double nuc, now in a single brood box. I united the supers first, next visit I moved the hive to another stand to bleed off more bees so the numbers are reduced further before I shake out the remainder.
 
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If you have any doubts, why not unite the supers first? I'm sorting out a drone layer at the moment, it was double brood and three supers. The original queen is next door in a double nuc, now in a single brood box. I united the supers first, next visit I moved the hive to another stand to bleed off more bees so the numbers are reduced further before I shake out the remainder.

thats a good plan

i have twice (when i liked the queen too much to use) done a second unite when moving below supers (and these worked fine)....

it feels like there is a different 'engagement' to take place when the two brood chambers come together but it may just be in my mind
 

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Not had a newspaper unite fail yet. I just bung the one that has been moved on top. Still time for the "yet" though
 

jenkinsbrynmair

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and then just move it below supers if not already direct above existing brood box?
yes, I usually consolidate the two broods at this time (if needed) hopefully getting rid of the older vacated comb
 

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i have mostly had great success with newspaper unite

i try to put Q- hive above Q+ hive (i think i read this some time ago on here)

when you need to do the reverse i.e. Q+ hive up top, and the lower Q- hive has supers, i have had two unites fail.

 

Erichalfbee

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That’s why I prefer to do it this way.
Last week I did it the opposite way as it was more convenient to move the queenless box.
I left them for a few days.
The bottom box made QCs and they buggered off
Now if the queen had been safely imprisoned above the QX?
 
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so Q+ goes uppermost even on its own stand?
 

magor

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That’s why I prefer to do it this way.
Last week I did it the opposite way as it was more convenient to move the queenless box.
I left them for a few days.
The bottom box made QCs and they buggered off
Now if the queen had been safely imprisoned above the QX?

sry me dont understand whats the prefer or opposite way?
as palmer explained you move Q-box from its stand (exclude from its most foragers,yep you loose something, them back to the old stand) and bottom it on new one(safe the Q on top)

if Q- has open brood they most probably make QCs no matter which way more when the unite happens slowly like when the two brood boxes separated far from each other and not direct each other

what bugger of means? cut them after unite happens?how Q inprisoned above QX?got confused ,why to use QX?
 

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Sorry. Typos galore. Bugger off ….swarm.
Actually what I meant was that I would in future always move the queenright hive and put it on top of the the queenless one.The QX is there to keep the newspaper down and it serves the dual purpose of keeping the queen in the top box where she can’t get out.
 

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for me supers go uppermost

Q+ on its stand goes direct above newspaper Q- , meaning its strong enouf and not far weaker than Q- so as can go down
So what happens to the bees that are out when they find their home gone?
 

magor

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So what happens to the bees that are out when they find their home gone?

doing it evening but even next couple days ll loose foragers, you loose something but thats one of the purposes of the movement, weaken the queenless of foragers

jep putting above newspaper any hive moved from its stand will almost keep most of its foragers till uniting happen

i think it went wrong (swarm) in your case due to open brood and QX - inprisoned Q above not letting the unite proceed, it do no happens when you doing it your way? seems even much stronger bottom box if keep Q- on its stand plus the Q+ foragers while Q inprisoned above QX , dunno
 

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If you have any doubts, why not unite the supers first? I'm sorting out a drone layer at the moment, it was double brood and three supers. The original queen is next door in a double nuc, now in a single brood box. I united the supers first, next visit I moved the hive to another stand to bleed off more bees so the numbers are reduced further before I shake out the remainder.
This is the stage I have reached trying to manage an aggressive colony whose Q I am unable to find. Yesterday I removed the frames of stores to another BB to free up some space, inspected the frames didn't find the Q. Left the BB open with the frames spaced as a 2 - 3 -3. Checked again after 30min, still no success. One more attempt late this afternoon then I'll try filtering to find her. For this latter process is it better to put the cleared brood frames below the QX and shake the bees onto this? As soon as I've driven the bees down through the QX I'll unite with another colony. Thoughts?
 

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If there is brood on the frames, they will go through to cover the frames or you could shake each frame into a spare box, put the excluder on and then the box containing the brood, queen will be below.
Neither way is nice. Move the hive and let the flying bees clear off while you do it.
 

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