Newspaper unite Fail

[Wingy]

Gutted to say the least & lost a very nice Queen.
So nasty hive, brood, QX, super.
I caged the Queen, went back a week later. Shook bees off every frame & destroyed all Queen cells. Went back a week after that, removed the Queen still in the cage. Shook bees off every frame no Queen cells no eggs no larvae only capped brood as expected.
Put back together as floor, Q - brood, newspaper, QX, Q + brood, CB & roof. Just gone back now and there has been no attempt to chew through the paper from any side and the top box have eaten their stores & starved despite the bottom box still bringing in loads of stores. Now hopelessly Q - again

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

should have done the unite immediately on killing the bottom queen - and certainly not faffed about with caging the good queen

 

[Ian123]

Gutted to say the least & lost a very nice Queen.
So nasty hive, brood, QX, super.
I caged the Queen, went back a week later. Shook bees off every frame & destroyed all Queen cells. Went back a week after that, removed the Queen still in the cage. Shook bees off every frame no Queen cells no eggs no larvae only capped brood as expected.
Put back together as floor, Q - brood, newspaper, QX, Q + brood, CB & roof. Just gone back now and there has been no attempt to chew through the paper from any side and the top box have eaten their stores & starved despite the bottom box still bringing in loads of stores. Now hopelessly Q -

Bit late but a little patch of pin pricks in the paper gives them the idea and a place to start chewing….I’ve seen it happen before.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Bit late but a little patch of pin pricks in the paper gives them the idea and a place to start chewing….I’ve seen it happen before.

I just punch a couple of tears in the paper with the end of the hive tool.

 

[Wingy]

should have done the unite immediately on killing the bottom queen - and certainly not faffed about with caging the good queen

I did unite when I killed the Queen & never caged the good queen

 

[Boston Bees]

Gutted to say the least & lost a very nice Queen.
So nasty hive, brood, QX, super.
I caged the Queen, went back a week later. Shook bees off every frame & destroyed all Queen cells. Went back a week after that, removed the Queen still in the cage. Shook bees off every frame no Queen cells no eggs no larvae only capped brood as expected.
Put back together as floor, Q - brood, newspaper, QX, Q + brood, CB & roof. Just gone back now and there has been no attempt to chew through the paper from any side and the top box have eaten their stores & starved despite the bottom box still bringing in loads of stores. Now hopelessly Q - again

Sorry to hear that - horrible to find.

How many sheets of newspaper were there?

As others have said, I am always a bit paranoid about this, and poke a couple of tiny holes with my hive tool, just to give them no choice but to recognise that there's something down there. I also don't use a queen excluder to be honest which I suspect doesn't help much.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I did unite when I killed the Queen & never caged the good queen

so what was all that about tearing down QC's and caging the queen - or did I just dream that?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I also don't use a queen excluder to be honest which I suspect doesn't help much.

why doesn't it? that seems to imply it hinders things - but it doesn't

 

[madasafish]

I always tear a few holes in paper.
And unite immediately after making one hive Q-

Never has any issues so far.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I always put in the inspection tray and look for paper the next morning. If there isn’t any then I investigate.

 

[Wingy]

so what was all that about tearing down QC's and caging the queen - or did I just dream that?

Prior to uniting. I started by caging the nasty Q for a week so they would throw up a couple of supercedure cells, easier to find them all rather than loads of emergency cells. Then tore them down leaving it long enough that they couldn’t make any more.
Then Q out and dispatched and unite done then with good Q in the box above - not caged

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Prior to uniting. I started by caging the nasty Q for a week so they would throw up a couple of supercedure cells, easier to find them all rather than loads of emergency cells. Then tore them down leaving it long enough that they couldn’t make any more.
Then Q out and dispatched and unite done then with good Q in the box above - not caged

Probably part of the reason your unite failed - even if they had eaten through the paper, they'd been mucked about so much

 

[jeff33]

Gutting to see this happening but as others, I reckon you should have united straight away without all the faff and manipulations for a week or so.
After learning this year you could unite in daytime, I know dispatch unwanted queen, air freshener and unite....all under 10 minutes.

 

[Moody]

So sorry to hear. I think it helps to make tiny slits in the paper to help bees start chewing.

I'm in a similar position, I have a hive that's been Q- for several weeks. Anybody know if the normal uniting method will still work as expected..?

 

[Wingy]

Point taken re immediate unite, tried it this way last season they chewed through the paper killed the new Q and set about making a new one from their own larvae - guess as in all bee keeping some you win some you loose and one method over another doesn’t always work the way we would like

 

[Erichalfbee]

Point taken re immediate unite, tried it this way last season they chewed through the paper killed the new Q and set about making a new one from their own larvae - guess as in all bee keeping some you win some you loose and one method over another doesn’t always work the way we would like

It’s why if I feel there is a significant disparity in the colonies being united the queen is safest in the top. There is always the option of caging her too Maybe even under a push in cage with some of her own bees.

 

[jeff33]

@Wingy as you say, it's never guaranteed. I lost one last year, initial unite work but the Q- half made a couple of Qcs from the new queen and killed her as they wanted their own.

 

[jeff33]

Anybody know if the normal uniting method will still work as expected..?

Might be tricky unless your queen right hive is a lot stronger than the q-. I would put a frame of bias and let them raise a queen or if it has been a long time and they are starting to dwindle shake them out.

 

[Wingy]

Jeff, your probably right. The issues I’m facing are I inherited a couple of very nasty hives from a friend that couldn’t cope with them & wanted rid of them. I stuck them out on the OSR away from anyone. The colonies are pretty big BUT the OSR is almost done now and I’ll have to monitor their stores. There are a couple of fields of clover and a lot of camomile so hopefully they will be ok. If not I’ll have to move them which due to their aggressiveness is not an option or feed them which I may have to do until a new Q is established and the older workers die off

 

[Codford]

I always use a page from the FT, has never failed (yet) - and they produce a rather attractive pink confetti!