New English beekeeping group

[JCBrum]

Research in the Archive provides this ........

7th November 2008, 01:57 PM
OOOooooo, sounds good!
Widdershins
7th November 2008, 01:57 PM
....cant the admin introduce themselves?
Hivemaker.
8th November 2008, 03:22 PM
Don't be silly,its better that we never know who they are?
Widdershins
8th November 2008, 10:27 PM
Ha ha!!! Fair enough...

Perhaps we had better leave the veil undrawn ! JC.

 

[RoofTops]

If you take away what I pay for insurance £20 is about what I pay the BBKA. For that I get 3 lots of newletters - from the local branch, from the county branch (Devon's "Beekeeping" has a circulation of about a thousand and is a very informative read) plus the BBKA News 10 times a year. BBKA also organise the modules and exams plus, whatever you might think about them, represents beekeeping to the government for the majority* of UK beekeepers.

Beekeeping is riddled with breakaway groups who fell out with the local association and rode off into the sunset to do their own thing.

I'm not against the idea of a new association, set one up by all means, but you will need to think about whether it would achieve much other than a feeling of self-satisfaction amongs the original members. The advice I've given before is if people want to change the BBKA they need to do it from within by getting active locally. Taking your football to another playground will achieve nothing. If you can't change it locally then perhaps that is democracy at work and the majority are happy with the way things are.

From Tim Lovett's own lips he does not see the BBKA endorsing any more pesticides so the the issue will eventually wither on the vine so to speak - if pesticides is what this all about.

I have my own complaints about the BBKA - their objection to money spent on "pollinator" research and not wholly on bees. I think this is narrow minded. The RSPB is partially funding a project to re-introduce the smooth snake to parts of Devon. Nothing to do with birds apart from the odd raptor which might catch one for food but it is all about improving the environment. I can't see how research on pollinators can be to the detriment of beekeepers so I believe the BBKA should support this research. Something of direct benefit to beekeepers might arise from it and we won't know unless they go ahead. The BBKA has also just pulled out of working with Fera on the bee health plan for reasons that are hard to distinguish from a temper tantrum based the article in the latest Bee Craft. But my dismay at reading this is not to leave the BBKA. Perhaps I need to get involved myself again after having stood down from my County Committee earlier this year.

* well a lot if not the majority taking into account the other countries and the non-registered.

 

[Firegazer]

I think the suggestion is well worth continuing with, PH.

I'm just about to join the local BKA, mainly to get the insurance and legal support, but also to get representation and 'real-life' guidance.

I get lots of very useful advice (and the Beeshed videos are great too, HP!) from this site and if someone offered me the representation and insurance for 20 quid a year, I'd go for it. I'd probably try and stick with the local BKA too, if that would work.

I really don't think that "tell me everything about what it will do, when and how and only then will I decide" is a good plan. If it's only the price of a couple of rounds in the pub, and the people starting it are doing it with the right motives, I'd support it for now and try and help make it succeed. If it's only a political 'In your face, BBKA!' move, I'd probably stop supporting it and just focus on doing as good a job as I could with all the resources available.

 

[Black Comb]

I think the suggestion is well worth continuing with, PH.

I'm just about to join the local BKA, mainly to get the insurance and legal support, but also to get representation and 'real-life' guidance.

I get lots of very useful advice (and the Beeshed videos are great too, HP!) from this site and if someone offered me the representation and insurance for 20 quid a year, I'd go for it. I'd probably try and stick with the local BKA too, if that would work.

I really don't think that "tell me everything about what it will do, when and how and only then will I decide" is a good plan. If it's only the price of a couple of rounds in the pub, and the people starting it are doing it with the right motives, I'd support it for now and try and help make it succeed. If it's only a political 'In your face, BBKA!' move, I'd probably stop supporting it and just focus on doing as good a job as I could with all the resources available.

That's my point, what are the motives?
Nothing wrong with asking questions.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am going to straghten out here a misconception.

I apersonally am not trying to start up anything. I was asked the questiona dn as I don't consider my opion to be that valuable I asked the froum their thoughts.

As for racist. Gooood grief. I said English as Scotland Ireland and Wales already have their own organization and there is a thought process in England that assumes that England means the UK. So I was specific.

I agree that Tim said, and said it to me in person at Stoneleigh that the pesticides issue will die off naturally.

I personally find the BBKA to be unhelpful as an organization and that it is has an institutional attitude that I strongly dislike.

I am not proposing myself for any committee that may or may not be formed by the way, I am just asking the forum if there is support for another organization.

PH

 

[Black Comb]

Thanks for that PH.
I would not offer support as I'm happy with the BBKA and what it offers.
(I like this forum though)

 

[taff..]

As for racist. Gooood grief. I said English as Scotland Ireland and Wales already have their own organization and there is a thought process in England that assumes that England means the UK. So I was specific.



PH

I think you missed something PH, I was only tapping your funny bone, sorry

I'm surprised that you allow this sort of racist* bile on your forum admin




*calm down, firmly toung in cheek

 

[Brosville]

Perhaps it's an "age" thing, but I will shortly be leaving my local association precisely because of it's affiliation to the BBKA as a matter of principle - both because of the glaringly amoral association with chemical companies, but also because of the lack of true democracy, and the utter arrogance displayed by the hierarchy and "Stassi party members" - from my experience, rank and file members are NOT consulted about such things as Bayer tie-ups - the law is laid down by the "political officers", and that's an end of it.........
I fully understand, but don't agree with the "change from within" argument - I think the whole thing is thoroughly rotten to the core, and needs completely dismantling, and starting again - hence I would welcome with open arms a truly democratic, grass-roots driven national association for ALL UK beekeepers (including us nutters with top-bar hives!), that is interested in furthering OUR interests, and not their buddies in the agrochem business...........
Got no problem whatsoever with the vast majority of BBKA members, who for the most part are nice, welcoming, friendly people who do a great deal to further beekeeping - but a great many with the present hierarchy!

 

[BKF Admin]

Research in the Archive provides this ........

7th November 2008, 01:57 PM
OOOooooo, sounds good!
Widdershins
7th November 2008, 01:57 PM
....cant the admin introduce themselves?
Hivemaker.
8th November 2008, 03:22 PM
Don't be silly,its better that we never know who they are?
Widdershins
8th November 2008, 10:27 PM
Ha ha!!! Fair enough...

Perhaps we had better leave the veil undrawn ! JC.

This is me: CLICK HERE.

 

[victor meldrew]

I thought an old cynic like me couldn't be caught
Nice one Admin

John Wilkinson

 

[BKF Admin]

I suppose I had better get off the fence and give my thoughts:

I am still a member of my local BBKA and think that at grass roots level most association's are second to non with the help and support they give at times.

My problem is with those at the top,It seems they got a sniff about all the goverment money going into Pollination research and not bee research,so what do they do? start using the word "Pollination" in every press release and not talking about bee's,it really does show them up for what they are.

Regards the insecticide money coverup I think we have already done that one to death and the exec have realised that the common BBKA member is not as stupid as they may of thought.

Things are changing in beekeeping and I like to think this forum is at the front pushing the changes,the BBKA needs to realise that interest is growing in alternative hive types,the top bar hive and Beehaus to name just two,they need to move with the times and stop being so elitist.

Maybe some of the new beekeepers who join the forum may go on to work at exec level within the BBKA in time,who know's?

Do we need a seperate association? personaly I dont think so,I am more concerned about all those beekeepers going back over the last 150 years of BBKA history who must be turning in their graves at the attitude of the current setup though.

Whould I like to see changes,yes I would,am I prepared to get off my *rse and do something about it? no,just like most members of the BBKA.

As a forum there is only so much we can achive and I believe we are getting there.
Its better to be the best beekeeping forum in the uk rather than spread ourselves to thin in trying to achive to much and being bad at eveything.

I realise that PH was asking the question in general and not asking that the forum become the vehicle for any new group,but I just wanted to get across my thoughts on the subject incase anyone thought otherwise..

 

[Melbourne12]

....
As a forum there is only so much we can achive and I believe we are getting there.
Its better to be the best beekeeping forum in the uk rather than spread ourselves to thin in trying to achive to much and being bad at eveything.

....

Hear, hear!

Times have changed. You'll achieve a hundred times more through the internet and modern communications than through some old-fashioned committee sitting round a table.

 

[JCBrum]

This is me:

Like the bee suit Mark, plastic 'eh ? Was it from Omlet ? JC.

 

[MJBee]

A new association, whatever the format would be of no benefit to members who live outside the UK.
The BBKA offers very little to expats - NO vote, NO insurance and at £3 per copy the BBKA News is hardly good value for money
Mike

 

[Somerford]

Rbs/rba ???

Consider this a poll with out a poll.

If such an organization was to be founded would you as an individual be willing to put your hand in your pocket and fund it to say the tune of £20. If not £20 then how much less or more?

Do you agree it will need a steering committee to get off the ground.

What aims would you like to see it achieve? And let's be just a tad realistic here hmm?

Interesting idea.

lets us consider aims and objectives before thinking about the money aspect.

I think a primary aim must be to recruit, train and support new beekeepers better than the current ways - either by encouragement via local volunteers or by sponsoring local colleges to run courses a la the American model.

I also believe the old role of county bee instructor should be resurrected to encourage the first aim.

The third aim should be to encourage big business to take an interest in and support the first two aims financially.

If one was looking for a model then perhaps that of the RHS could work. Obviously we would also require a royal patron to make it the Royal Beekeeping Society, or RBS or Association, RBA. I'm sure one of the royals would be up for it. who knows maybe one is reading this ? (if so, where's my bl**dy knighthood ?)

The current set up is a shambles run by loons too concerned with their own self importance.

To achieve all the above, which are aims the BBKA shy away from...lets say a cool £1 million for starters. If all the forum members were to join it, subs could be set at £850 each per annum.

(I jest - say £30 and the rest from commercial help)

 

[JCBrum]

Commercial help ? ...... Urghhhh, puke ! .....

 

[Somerford]

Commercial help ? ...... Urghhhh, puke ! .....

why the big issue ?

The fact remains that without substantial government help (and then it would be out of our hands) to achive the aims I think important then business would need to step in, perhaps a numberof foundations/trusts as well as a few bigger businesses (eg co op/food producers - not agro chemical co's or oil companies!!)

the BBKA needs a rocket up it. A rival organisation would quickly gain ground if it gave them a run for their money. But money is what it would require.

 

[JCBrum]

Commercial help is exactly that. Commerce is the act of making a trade for gain.

No commercial organization provides funds for nothing. They wouldn't be 'commercial' if they did.

Where is the allegiance ? to the members, who are probably a drain on resources, or to the funds providers, who will extract their requirement or cease funding if dissatisfied.

Surely one of this forums strengths is that it can do what it likes, and say what it likes because it's beholden to no-one.

 

[Somerford]

but that is reality in todays world - either a loose association of well meaning people who pontificate and gesticulate and hand wring but achieve little other than a newsletter, or a government supported body beholden to the whims of the latest political fad, or a quasi independant group, funded as I have suggested. Which is the lesser or the evils,which might achieve more ?

I think the latter option, but then this is probably a superfluous idea as it will never gain ground........ ??

 

[JCBrum]

Well, lets examine the situation a little more practically.

This forum works. It has two functions at present -

1 it's a self-help group, succeeding admirably imo.

2 it actually is a 'forum' providing a place to communicate and exchange ideas and opinion on anything anyone wishes to discuss.

Most particularly there are few constraints, and anyone is entitled to put their view forward. Only in the case of gross offense is a sanction applied.

Personally I don't want to change any of that, and I've had enough of pussy-footing around other peoples 'commercial' interests.

If you want a different organization, to go and do a different job, then ok go and start it, but count me out, I don't want to join a 'commercial' organization, and don't spoil this excellent forum.

just my 2p, ymmv. JC. (p.s. don't take this personally )