new beekeepers first year.

[sandyjet62]

Hi all,

We have just discovered a small colony in a nuc box which we had set up with 3 frames of drawn comb and laced with lemon grass oil, in the hope some bees would fancy a new home.

Having only had our first bees last year, its been a bit of a roller coaster ride.

We had our first bees in May 2011 and put them into their hive. they built up nicely until we discovered that the queen had been trapped between the frame ends and was being superceded. They had made several queen cells also and so we decided with the help of the bee inspector, that splitting would be the way to go as it was still in June. Both colonies produced a queen but while one thrived, the other became queen less and we assumed the queen never came back from a mating flight for whatever reason. After leaving till about the tail end of July, we re-combined these bees with the main hive. Again they built up, now on double brood and went into the winter with some stores and we fed also. At our first inspection this year, we found the queen but it appeared a lot lighter in colour than we remembered from before the winter. as it was a new queen from last year we decided to mark her but clumsily got some paint on her wings. We did notice a lack of eggs and larve at this stage, but as we still had some dark old comb in the hive, we assumed that we couldnt see into the cells, happy that the queen was there and the bees had come through the winter. a few weeks later there were still no eggs and noticabley less bees. this continued until April or so when I noticed there were eggs but two or three in each cell over a small patch on one frame but no where else and at this time, hardly any bees. Anyway, it was obvious by now that the colony was dying out and by the begining of May they were gone. I know we probably should have, but we did not treat for verroa last autumn. We monitored over a few weeks and saw no sign of mites, nor did we have any deformed bees or dead larvae. Given that although they were on double brood and not using the bottom box by this time, we settled them for the winter back into one brood box.
I dont really know why they died out, I just wonder if it is possible that it was in fact a new queen which emerged after the hive was left for the winter and because we got paint on her wings never managed to mate. Whatever the reason, it was probably our fault and lack of knowledge that killed off the hive.

Now to our new colony. When we opened the nuc there were three frames of bees and a gap which was full of comb and honey. We transfered the frames in order into the middle of the hive which is just inches away from the nuc box, and removed the burr comb and placed in hive also, then nestled up with drawn foundation either side. didnt have any time to study the bees, as can be expected, they werent happy so the whole operation was done quite quickly. I am assuming now that the bees will dismantle the burr comb and tranfer to the drawn frames. There were alot of very fiesty bees around but they did start to settle and entered the hive with a few stragglers around the now upturned nuc.

Our thoughts are that we will leave them settle now for a week or so, and then remove any burr comb they have left if we see that the queen is laying on the frames.

We would appreciate any advice on how to succeed from here.

 

[sandyjet62]

how to remove the brace comb?

Hi all,

Just had a quick look at the hive but didnt want to open for too long because there were people on the next allotment. It appears that the bees have refilled the gap I had left in the brood frames with comb so now i need to remove it and replace with a frame. What are the chances of the queen being on it or is it likely to be just stores? Can I just remove and place in nuc alongside? Or should I place it on the crown board? I am concerned that the queen maybe on the comb and so i do not want to run the risk of removing her from the hive. another problem caused by the comb is that the weight has pulled down the pins from the mesh floor and so the bees have a front and a back door. My thoughts are to remove the comb completely and place in an empty nuc alongside, chock up the veroa mesh and repin. I dont think the queen would be on the brace comb as when I moved the middle frames the bees became agitated. As I only had a jacket on and there were people around I didnt want to annoy them further.

 

[Davelin]

The queen could be anywhere, the only safe thing is to shake all the bees off the comb as you remove it. I would then take it well away.

Re the floor, the drawing pins supplied by a well known manufacturer are woefully inadequate. Best to use galvanised staples; if you have a spare floor fix securely and swap.

 

[sandyjet62]

Thanks for that Davelin,

The problem is that the comb is very heavy. It started to break up when I lifted it from the nuc and thats why it ended up being dropped into the hive. I thought perhaps they would clean stores from it and store in frames but alas they have just built more on top. It is the thickness and depth of 2 brood frames and dripping with stores. I cant inspect the comb because it just breaking up. I did think of using the adjoining frames to sort of sandwich it to draw it out, but again dont want to risk queen.

 

[sandyjet62]

Just thought about it. Would it be better to place another floor and broodbox alongside and transfer all the brood frames leaving the comb behind. I have a feeling the bees are going to go bonkas whatever I do, but at least I should be able to do it fairly quickly and reduce the risk of damaging the queen. or will this be too drastic for them?

 

[FreeFall]

I would try putting another brood box above the existing one and moving whatever frames you can (fill the gaps with foundation!), without causing unnecessary damage, from the bottom into the top box. Ideally, if you just have the chunk of wild comb left in the bottom, the queen and most of the bees should move up and you can take away the bottom box, shake the (hopefully few) bees off the wild comb and remove it.

 

[SimonB]

I am not that experienced, but if I was faced with the same problem I think I would probably try to push the comb through the brood box into a suitable container placed underneath. In other words separate the brood box from the floor and place over said container. This way the comb is less likely to break up under its own weight. Do so very gently so as to minimise bee losses. Then place the brood box back onto the floor.

Inspect the comb as closely as possible for the queen, if there then collect and place back onto a brood frame.

Either then place the comb into an Ashworth or similar feeder with open access onto the brood box, or onto a feeder board (crown board with holes) with an empty super. Then crown board and roof.

The bees should then hopefully clean up the comb and transfer to brood frames.

If the colony is small then I would not fill the brood box with frames of foundation. Add 3 or 4 and dummy out the rest of the brood box but keep a close eye on them since if there is a lot of stores in the wild comb then they could fill those frames pretty quickly.

I suspect that the bees will take a disliking to any manipulation of that sort, so make sure you are well protected and that there are no others around.

Generally any free space that is not 'dummied', ie separated by a suitable division, will have wild or brace comb built in it, so best to avoid.

Again, there may well be better suggestions, that's just my thoughts.

 

[sandyjet62]

I would try putting another brood box above the existing one and moving whatever frames you can (fill the gaps with foundation!), without causing unnecessary damage, from the bottom into the top box. Ideally, if you just have the chunk of wild comb left in the bottom, the queen and most of the bees should move up and you can take away the bottom box, shake the (hopefully few) bees off the wild comb and remove it.

Thanks freefall,

That makes sense. very little disturbance and hive still on the same site. Why didnt I think of that?

Thanks Simonb for your suggestions also. I dont know if it could be called a small colony, the Nuc box they occupied was crammed with bees on the 3 frames that were in there and the rest of the box was the brace comb which is why it ended up in the hive. It lifted up ok but stretched under its own weight (and the weight of all the bees) I was lucky to get it into the hive and not have it end up a sticky heap on the floor or the side of the hive. Had to close it up.. they went bonkas. Only went to see them today because I was concerned the maybe overly aggressive, we put our jackets and veils on and went to test them out by going to the hive just make sure they were not likely to attack anything that moves close to them. they were fine while we were knelt down in front of the entrance and were still flying in and out even though it was towards dusk. When I looked in the entrance I could see the comb on the floor, decided they were calm enough to have a quick look and then saw that they had rebuilt the comb again in the 2 days we had left them, on top of what was slumped on the floor. As soon as I moved one of the frames they went mad again. As there were people nearby, I closed them up again and they calmed down. I think I will have to try using a cloth with these bees... they dont seem to like being opened.
Thanks again.

 

[FreeFall]

Are you giving them a few puffs of smoke and then waiting five minutes before opening them up? Then a few puffs more across the top bars (not down into the box) once the crownboard is off?