Happy New year fellow beekeepers. What are your aspirations?

[ericbeaumont]

what's best to do when you've missed it and find open and sealed qcs! Is there a virgin present or not!

Option 1: Open all the sealed and remove all the open. You may find that the sealed are in fact open and empty (or with a dead worker inside). Virgins that you release will fight it out.

Option 2: Remove all the sealed (make up 2f nucs) and remove all open cells bar the best one. Check a few days later, in case you missed one.

Option 3: Make splits with a few sealed each, and leave them to it. Better to retain flyers by removing the splits to another apiary. Once the main colony is weakened the bees will re-calibrate strategy and cull their own.

 

[Newbeeneil]

It's a bit hit and miss ... there are sometimes amazing bargains to be had but I've also seen really crap stuff sell for more than you can pick it up new in the sales. To be honest, the second hand standard timber hives (that have been worth having) that I've seen over the years at both Sussex and Meon Valley auctions have gone for more than I would have paid for them. One of my beekeeping friends picked up a stack of good looking national supers for a very modest price, she was surprised at the bargain - only to get them home and discover that they had been home made and they were not quite National size - when put on top of a standard national there was a lip all the way round as they were just a bit bigger ! Largely unusable and they were pine as well ... expensive firewood.

Buyer beware - take a tape measure and know what you are looking for. I suspect, for the quantity of kit you are looking for, you would be better spending the fuel money on buying new in the sales.

Having said that, I like auctions, they are a bit of fun, you get to meet up with friends and the bacon rolls and cake are worth the trip and sometimes there are bargains ... I picked up a pack of new disposable overalls which are really good quality and will keep me going for years of decorating for a fraction of their original cost and a Black and Decker workmate - one of the early 'proper jobs' for a fiver !! I picked up some Paynes Nucs and a Paynes hive for a lot less than they were new - but it seems a lot of people don't much like Paynes kit (their loss, my gain !).

I’ll be down at the WSBKA auction again Philip, hopefully getting rid of a few nucs and some of the c**p I bought last year

 

[Mint Bee]

It's a bit hit and miss ... there are sometimes amazing bargains to be had but I've also seen really crap stuff sell for more than you can pick it up new in the sales. To be honest, the second hand standard timber hives (that have been worth having) that I've seen over the years at both Sussex and Meon Valley auctions have gone for more than I would have paid for them. One of my beekeeping friends picked up a stack of good looking national supers for a very modest price, she was surprised at the bargain - only to get them home and discover that they had been home made and they were not quite National size - when put on top of a standard national there was a lip all the way round as they were just a bit bigger ! Largely unusable and they were pine as well ... expensive firewood.

Buyer beware - take a tape measure and know what you are looking for. I suspect, for the quantity of kit you are looking for, you would be better spending the fuel money on buying new in the sales.

Having said that, I like auctions, they are a bit of fun, you get to meet up with friends and the bacon rolls and cake are worth the trip and sometimes there are bargains ... I picked up a pack of new disposable overalls which are really good quality and will keep me going for years of decorating for a fraction of their original cost and a Black and Decker workmate - one of the early 'proper jobs' for a fiver !! I picked up some Paynes Nucs and a Paynes hive for a lot less than they were new - but it seems a lot of people don't much like Paynes kit (their loss, my gain !).

Saturday 27th April 2024. Chichester College's Brinsbury Campus, Pulborough
https://www.westsussexbeekeepers.org.uk/auction.html

 

[Swarm]

Option 1: Open all the sealed and remove all the open. You may find that the sealed are in fact open and empty (or with a dead worker inside). Virgins that you release will fight it out.

Option 2: Remove all the sealed (make up 2f nucs) and remove all open cells bar the best one. Check a few days later, in case you missed one.

Option 3: Make splits with a few sealed each, and leave them to it. Better to retain flyers by removing the splits to another apiary. Once the main colony is weakened the bees will re-calibrate strategy and cull their own.

Option 2 every time for me. Insurance policy should there be queen failure or loss.

 

[Sutty]

Option 1: Open all the sealed and remove all the open. You may find that the sealed are in fact open and empty (or with a dead worker inside). Virgins that you release will fight it out.

Option 2: Remove all the sealed (make up 2f nucs) and remove all open cells bar the best one. Check a few days later, in case you missed one.

Option 3: Make splits with a few sealed each, and leave them to it. Better to retain flyers by removing the splits to another apiary. Once the main colony is weakened the bees will re-calibrate strategy and cull their own.

When this happened to me last year I did option1 (and I should have said "emerged" rather than open).
I knew I'd missed a swarm (I saw it happen) and went through the hive, found an emerged QC, opened several ripe qcs releasing the virgins, & destroyed the rest, then left them to it. I guess the swarm I saw was most likely a cast too.
I didn't need any insurance as I already had too many colonies!

 

[pargyle]

I’ll be down at the WSBKA auction again Philip, hopefully getting rid of a few nucs and some of the c**p I bought last year

I'll probably be there to buy all your old crap then !! I hope Roger speeds up a bit this year, by the time it had finished and I'd had to go to Tesco's cash machine as the Associations card reader packed up it was past my bedtime !

 

[Newbeeneil]

I'll probably be there to buy all your old crap then !! I hope Roger speeds up a bit this year, by the time it had finished and I'd had to go to Tesco's cash machine as the Associations card reader packed up it was past my bedtime !

I don’t think you’ll ever speed Roger up and it’s a long day for him and Angus.
If you like I could just come and dump my crap on your lawn and miss out the middle man!!!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don’t think you’ll ever speed Roger up

pop a few E's in his tea?

 

[Antipodes]

What I’ve seen in a “swarmy” year is the swarm leaving before queen cells are capped.
Queen in residence after capping is really common

What is the earliest stage of queen cell development that you reckon you've seen a swarm leave (assuming that one checked excellently for all possible cells)?
Anyone else with a day number?
I was listening to a beekeeper (online) the other day and he reckoned in a swarmy year (out on the mallee, west of the Great Dividing Range), he'd go to an apiary site and there would be a swarm on every post. Pretty funny

 

[Sutty]

What is the earliest stage of queen cell development that you reckon you've seen a swarm leave (assuming that one checked excellently for all possible cells)?
Anyone else with a day number?
I was listening to a beekeeper (online) the other day and he reckoned in a swarmy year (out on the mallee, west of the Great Dividing Range), he'd go to an apiary site and there would be a swarm on every post. Pretty funny

Earliest is with only eggs in cells!
However I had a colony with late swarm preps (1qc sealed), I knocked them back to 1 (possible they had already swarmed but I don't think so), then swapped their position with a much smaller hive (no swarm preps) that was building up, to bleed off the flying bees from the big swarmy hive. This smaller colony, then boosted by lots of flying bees swarmed (witnessed) 2 days later with only eggs in QCs!
Seems the flying bees are in charge!
Happened mid May 2023.

 

[Antipodes]

Earliest is with only eggs in cells!
However I had a colony with late swarm preps (1qc sealed), I knocked them back to 1 (possible they had already swarmed but I don't think so), then swapped their position with a much smaller hive (no swarm preps) that was building up, to bleed off the flying bees from the big swarmy hive. This smaller colony, then boosted by lots of flying bees swarmed (witnessed) 2 days later with only eggs in QCs!
Seems the flying bees are in charge!
Happened mid May 2023.

It's all too tricky!
Perhaps the eggs in cells colony was an abscond? I've seen a few absconds from mini nucs and once from a small colony. They all left with eggs, larvae and sealed brood, but no queen cell development.

 

[Curly green finger's]

pop a few E's in his tea?

That’s not going to help he will be cuddling everyone and telling folk he loves them, give him some amphetamine instead that will speed him up.

 

[Sutty]

It's all too tricky!
Perhaps the eggs in cells colony was an abscond? I've seen a few absconds from mini nucs and once from a small colony. They all left with eggs, larvae and sealed brood, but no queen cell development.

No, these had several new queen cells with eggs in (little more than cups) and they definitely weren't there before!
I think the flying bees just continued their swarm preps and buggered off asap, just with a different queen!

 

[Antipodes]

No, these had several new queen cells with eggs in (little more than cups) and they definitely weren't there before!
I think the flying bees just continued their swarm preps and buggered off asap, just with a different queen!

Little rascals!
I found a colony a week or so back, about two days from sealing cups. I got lucky. Anyhow, the old queen was still present so I moved the colony home to deal with it better. I moved some cells from them to other splits to raise some new queens, and left some with them, removing the old queen. The colony that wanted to swarm (now without a queen) tore all the cells I left them with down, only to then build new emergency cells.

 

[Sutty]

Little rascals!
I found a colony a week or so back, about two days from sealing cups. I got lucky. Anyhow, the old queen was still present so I moved the colony home to deal with it better. I moved some cells from them to other splits to raise some new queens, and left some with them, removing the old queen. The colony that wanted to swarm (now without a queen) tore all the cells I left them with down, only to then build new emergency cells.

It's certainly hard to understand all their swarming related behaviour!
Maybe in moving them you lost most of the swarm-determined flying bees, they then tore down the qcs before realising they were queenless!

 

[Swarm]

A few years ago, I arrived at the apiary with a swarm in full swing, bees everywhere. When I worked out which hive was the culprit, I found the queen on the second frame, by the time I put her safe, a cluster was forming in the brambles. I went on to find an opened cell and three more that emerged in my hands,
After sorting them out, I noticed the cluster of bees had returned to the hive.
It was the one with a white super.

 

[Antipodes]

I don't know if anyone has seen multiple swarms from different colonies gathering together in one group? Could fill a 44 gallon drum if the tales are believed! I guess in a really swarmy year....
I haven't, but apparently once homed and down the track, these massive swarms are not infrequently queenless. The supposition is that they kill all the queens.

 

[Antipodes]

Maybe in moving them you lost most of the swarm-determined flying bees, they then tore down the qcs before realising they were queenless!

Excellent Sutty. I reckon you are spot on.

 

[elainemary]

What I’ve seen in a “swarmy” year is the swarm leaving before queen cells are capped.
Queen in residence after capping is really common

Thanks makes sense. Last year was swarmy too wasn’t it. 7 out of my 9 colonies made swarm preps

Of the 7, 4 had capped cells and Q still there (as Q clipped was more relaxed about 7-10 day inspections). The remaining 3 had open cells and as expected, queen still there.
I didn’t have colonies any going early, all late with Q still present. Definitely seeing a correlation now I’ve been clipping for 4 or 5 seasons, between clipping and queens going late. Didn’t lose a single queen last year despite longer inspection time.

Whilst I had a lot of colonies that made swarm preparations none had a lot of swarm cells. No more than 5 or 6 cells and settled down once swarm controlled.

What I did find was reintroducing the old queen (Peter Little technique) doesn’t work as well in a swarmy season - that technique is best more towards the end of swarm season not in the middle. Do you agree? Or have you found differences?

It’s fascinating how colonies behave depending on genetics (race / strain / hybrid etc), the environment they are kept in and beekeeper technique.

 

[elainemary]

Re clipping: I don't have strong views (anymore) either way having clipped/not clipped. But a question I don't remember being asked by anyone is, in a time of potential high virus loads is it wise to be creating open wounds especially to queens. Maybe there's no issue at all.

I would have thought trophallaxis the everyday behaviour of bees is more of a factor in viral spread than clipping.