New bee shed arrived

[oliver90owner]

Lighting can be supplied from a vehicle battery (via an inverter) if not needed for too long. First you need to know the energy usage - long before deciding on any particular renewable energy system. The simple generator or inverter options are easily taken away for security, only needing an external connector to the circuits.

 

[Finman]

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What do you do with cabin?

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[Bob Bee]

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What do you do with cabin?

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Basically I put it on a level piece of ground adjacent to the bee plot on my largest out apiary. I then use it as a store and workroom for the next two years until I get the option of free electricity and a metered water supply. At that point I have a think about what to do next. Hopefully it will form part of a social enterprise scheme that I'm working on to offer supported work placements for young adults with learning disabilities. I expect I will post some questions at that point as well.
Bob

 

[Finman]

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That makes sense...

To keep hives inside beehouses is not clever even here.

Long time ago they were common.
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[Brosville]

I'd be tempted by a woodburner of some sort - you can buy an el cheapo "potbelly" stove for under £100 (the flue will probably cost nearly as much again) - I've got one in my "shed of earthly delights" and it's really effective - I burn whatever's handy - waste wood, charcoal, coal, and keeps it really warm and dry.......you can warm a kettle on it too

 

[itma]

I would agree absolutely that solar electric is no way to think of heating - anything.

You need to familiarise with wattages - rates of power consumption. An led bulb maybe 2 watts, small fluorescent maybe 15 watts, normal electric kettle 3000 watts ... even a baby travel kettle would be about 650 watts.

If you plan on using power tools, check their labels for their wattages and then size whatever generator or inverter to suit.

I think that -- on a 2 year outlook -- bottled gas is the way to go.

For warming the shed, start by insulating it. But do remember that burning gas (or wood) needs ventilation. And be sure to invest a couple of quid in a Carbon Monoxide alarm.

If you really want to do something with renewables, I'd suggest solar water heating. Huh? Basic idea would be to heat a heavily lagged large tank of water from a solar collector. Then, when you are using the shed, remove the lagging and you have a central heating radiator ... A high efficiency (evacuated tube) collector would work massively better for this than a repurposed old black-painted ch radiator ... and you could have a baby solar electric panel to run the circulating pump.
But a gas heater would be so much simpler!

 

[Bob Bee]

I like the idea of a woodburner but would need to inherit one I think. The gas burner would have multiple uses and I already have a propane bottle attached to my BBQ (didnt get much use this year) at home, so perhaps a double burner for occasional heating and boiling and warming (no crayfish on site unfortunately......). I may now get some use out of all that slightly out of date camping kit, stored in the loft...... Will a 'propane' bottle work with a camping cooker that used to use 'Camping Gaz' ?
Water heating system is a grand idea for when the water gets connected. Some great ideas here thanks.

 

[Brosville]

Calor and the other gas systems are deliberately not compatible....
Do be careful of fumes if you're burning any form of gas indoors, unless it's using a pukka caravan heater like a Carver or Eberspacher - a carbon monoxide detector is essential.

Boot fairs and markets can be a wonderful source of useful stuff for such an enterprise

 

[farbee]

Calor and the other gas systems are deliberately not compatible....
Do be careful of fumes if you're burning any form of gas indoors, unless it's using a pukka caravan heater like a Carver or Eberspacher - a carbon monoxide detector is essential.

Boot fairs and markets can be a wonderful source of useful stuff for such an enterprise

Good point. A surprising number of people die from carbon monoxide poisoning.

 

[enrico]

For solar you will need at least fifteen panels and a converter...it will only work if the sun is shining

Sorry, this is wrong, the majority of solar energy comes from ambient, non-direct sunlight, you only lose about 15% on an overcast day.

That saying, a small petrol generator would be better, as long as you don't mind the noise.

Well I lose loads more than that! I have ten panels 1.8 Kw, on an overcast day barely 100 watts,

 

[IGPebble]

Camping gas stoves and propane stoves are NOT compatible, each burns at a different temperature and ferocity and therefor needs different burners and valves or you could easily burn your place down.

A wood burning stove sounds like the best idea, though you would need proper insulation behind it so it didn't singe the interior. (waxy old frames burn REALLY well.)

 

[Bob Bee]

Camping gas stoves and propane stoves are NOT compatible, each burns at a different temperature and ferocity and therefor needs different burners and valves or you could easily burn your place down.

A wood burning stove sounds like the best idea, though you would need proper insulation behind it so it didn't singe the interior. (waxy old frames burn REALLY well.)

So is it just that there is either propane or butane or is there further variations in standard gas bottles.

 

[Bob Bee]

answering my own question:

The physical properties of the two gases are similar, and when regulated to the correct pressure, they will perform almost identically. However there are some important differences. Of the two gases, Butane has the most advantages.
It is less toxic and so can legally be used and stored indoors. Litre for litre, it contains around 12% more energy than Propane and so you can squeeze more running time into the same sized bottle. (Butane is heavier than Propane though, so weight for weight it's a pretty close call.)

Butane also burns cleaner than Propane (although this isn't normally a serious issue in caravanning.) Finally, while it's not strictly a property of the gas, Butane canisters generally use clip-on type connections. These are far more convenient than the Propane screw type connections, especially if you swap bottles around regularly (as you might if you also use your caravan bottle to run a barbecue.)

Conversely, Propane has only one advantage over Butane - but it's a big one! In order to be usable, the liquid in the bottle must be able to boil into a gas. In the case of Butane, this will happen at any temperature above -2C, whereas with Propane, this figure is much lower, at -42C. In the real world, it's not so clear cut. Whenever some of the liquid boils into gas, the remaining liquid cools.

It is therefore possible for the temperature of the liquid to drop to several degrees below ambient. This can easily prevent a Butane canister from producing a useful gas supply, even when the outside temperature is several degrees above 0C.

A compromise can be reached by mixing Propane with Butane, however none of the UK 'big bottle' suppliers actually do this. The small gas cartridges that are produced for camping stoves and gas lamps are often Propane/Butane mixes.

So choosing the right gas pretty much boils down to whether you need to use it in freezing (or near freezing) conditions. If this is likely, then Propane is a must. If not, then Butane has the edge.

 

[oliver90owner]

Without looking any further, both gases are sold as weight of liquid, not volume, so density and volume are irrelevant.

Indor or outdoor storage is based on volatity and therefore pressures involved.

 

[drstitson]

a decent tube solar setup will only cost a couple of hundred itself - then either allow convection to do it's stuff or a 12v pump and small PV panel. could divert to a rad when using hut.

 

[For want of a better word]

When I put fluorescent lights in my beeshed the bees were attracted in their hundreds to them ( 12v tubes as used in boat and run from battery with solar cells... also off boat )!

A net over any openings may bee a good idea!

I never heat mine as I want it to freeze to kill off bugs... then I have not been banished from the kitchen table for the beekeeperers winter pass-time... making frames!

 

[psafloyd]

I'd forget all about solar panels or wind power, you'll need to spend a small fortune (especially on batteries), and heating with them is completely out of the question (it takes gobbets of power) - I'd concur with "get a generator", and use bottled gas or diesel for heating, running something like a Carver or Eberspacher heater (ex caravan breaker or similar).

I'd suggest one of the better 4 stroke gennies, perhaps bought secondhand (I picked up a very serviceable 1.5kw Honda generator for £70 recently), then run the it when you want to use the extractor or other mains tools, and charge a battery with a large car charger whenever it's run, and run some 12v fluorescent lights from the battery.......

I agree with Brosville. Lights are easy, but for the rest you're best off using a small generator.

 

[psafloyd]

I ran a small system in my caravan for years which was fine for summer use - it was an 85 amp/hr battery, 20w solar panel and a solar charge controller (essential) - it was sufficient to run my lights, radio, heater blower, water pump, the occasional hour or two of tiny portable tv, and keep cameras/'phones charged -BUT bear in mind that in the depths of winter you'll need a pv panel around 6 times as large (120-150watts) to do the same. I also tried carting a small wind turbine - it really isn't worth the hassle!

Again, I would always avoid trying to heat (even kettles of water) using a small system, heating takes enormous amounts of power - use a gas stove.........

Or take a flask. Much easier.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Or take a flask. Much easier.

I agree. And you can keep quite a good malt in it.

Dusty.

 

[m100]

For heating, passive solar collectors giving zero cost of running

http://www.iedu.com/Solar/Panels/

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/Space_Heating.htm

Replace part or whole of roof with translucent panel (fibreglass from coachbuilding supplier) eliminating requirement for significant amount of lighting

Supply additional task lighting via solar PV.

Anything needing power like an extractor, use a generator

Forget using anything like a warming tray or bulk heating honey except with grid supplied power.