Natural Beekeeping in Urban areas

[busybee53]

There is a small concern near me where they grow veg etc. They say they are hoping to get a natural beekeeper to bring some bees there.

This is greater London with lots of houses/school etc. As I understand it natural beekeeping means letting the bees swarm when they want to which does not seem a good idea to me - especially as I might be the one who gets called out.

When I made an enquiry I was told that "a good natural beekeeper" would be able to avoid the bees swarming. Has anyone else heard of this? I thought you were either a natural beekeeper who let your bees swarm or that (like me) you tried to avoid swarming by AS so that you were not a "natural" beekeeper, however much care you might take of your bees.

Are there forum members who avoid swarms yet see themselves as natural beeks?

 

[Finman]

When I made an enquiry I was told that "a good natural beekeeper" would be able to avoid the bees swarming.?

Swarming is honeybees' natural habit to propagate.

Non swarming bee strain is result of strong bee breeding made by human.

There is no natural beekeeping. Catch and release beekeeping I know.

 

[For want of a better word]

I thought Natural beekeepers were ladies who had little to do and floated around in long frocks and open sandals and kept their bees in strange hives under pyramids covered in crystals to focus the cosmic energy!

I can not see anything at all natural about keeping bees!

Yeghes da

 

[Fatbee]

I don't keep natural type hives such as top bars but do know you can do swarm control like with frames in other types of hives. So, don't think you can say all natural beekeepers just let their bees swarm. I also know a few conventional beeks who undertake a fairly relaxed approach to swarm control.

My view is it's not the type of beekeeping to be wary of it's the beekeeping ability whether natural or more conventional

 

[For want of a better word]

CLASSIC FINMAN...
Catch & Release beekeeping !!!

 

[Tom Bick]

I guess some may simply let the bees swarm as plenty of conventional beekeepers do but a responsible beekeeper in a built up area would perform AS.

 

[Chris B]

I don't think "natural" beekeepers all keep bees the same way. My brother in law keeps bees only in Warre hives but has taken queens from me on occasion, can make splits (for increase or swarm control), and will treat for varroa with icing sugar.
The Warre hive itself was invented by a large scale bee farmer who actively sought to improve his bees for honey production.

 

[Anduril]

There is a small concern near me where they grow veg etc. They say they are hoping to get a natural beekeeper to bring some bees there.

This is greater London with lots of houses/school etc. As I understand it natural beekeeping means letting the bees swarm when they want to which does not seem a good idea to me - especially as I might be the one who gets called out.

When I made an enquiry I was told that "a good natural beekeeper" would be able to avoid the bees swarming. Has anyone else heard of this? I thought you were either a natural beekeeper who let your bees swarm or that (like me) you tried to avoid swarming by AS so that you were not a "natural" beekeeper, however much care you might take of your bees.

Are there forum members who avoid swarms yet see themselves as natural beeks?

The bees sometimes have other ideas.
Tell them to look for someone who has passed all their beekeeping exams, that will keep them busy for a few years.

 

[REDWOOD]

The only part of me that is not natural is a few fillings, so does that make me a natural or unnatural beekeeper?
What a load of old codswallop, any type of beekeeping is unnatural

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Maybe he does all his inspections unclothed?

 

[jonnybeegood]

I don't think "natural" beekeepers all keep bees the same way. My brother in law keeps bees only in Warre hives but has taken queens from me on occasion, can make splits (for increase or swarm control), and will treat for varroa with icing sugar.
The Warre hive itself was invented by a large scale bee farmer who actively sought to improve his bees for honey production.

How can he only treat varroa with icing sugar? I know it can help to get varroa off bees but not the ones in cells, isnt that just prolonging the inevitable?

 

[dn170221]

I don't think the term natural beekeeping has a verifiable meaning.
In my opinion if you are keeping bees it isn't natural.
I can't think of any places in the natural world where bees would find themselves showered with icing sugar naturally!!

 

[Chris B]

How can he only treat varroa with icing sugar? I know it can help to get varroa off bees but not the ones in cells, isnt that just prolonging the inevitable?

I don't think it's enough either. But if you're prepared to accept high winter losses then maybe okay. Brood breaks due to swarming/swarm control also help. He's never yet had a total wipeout, and every spring has at least 1 really good colony.

 

[For want of a better word]

Maybe he does all his inspections unclothed?

That would be a naturist beekeeper?

But I would like to see him hold the red hot smoker between his knees!

 

[jonnybeegood]

I don't think it's enough either. But if you're prepared to accept high winter losses then maybe okay. Brood breaks due to swarming/swarm control also help. He's never yet had a total wipeout, and every spring has at least 1 really good colony.

See thats where my problem lies, what are Natural beekeepers in it for? If its for the bees or the health of the bees, why are they willing to let so many bees die over winter when they could actually save them by treating them? I am only new to beekeeping but this doesnt sit right with me, maybe years ago before varroa it would have been good but not now. If they think they will miraculously create varroa free bees its not going to happen.

 

[Russel]

We recently received this request, make of it what you will:
"Hello,

I have an enquiry about bee keepers in the area of Gwent, I wonder if you can help – we (xxxxxxx Council) are setting up various community group bee keeping projects across the borough of xxxxxxx through the Nature Fund, where we are also providing training through the Barefoot Beekeeper (Biobees) as we are going to be setting up top bar hives.

I was wondering if there was any way you could possibly put us in touch with, or pass our details to, any bee keepers in the area who use top bar hives who would be willing to allow us to visit their hives as part of the training (it would probably only be for a couple of hours for one day), just so our beginners can gain an idea of this beekeeping method outside of the theory training. Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Many Thanks,

xxxx
Biodiversity Assistant"

and this:
Thank you for your reply, I appreciate you forwarding our request.


We are setting up hives on sites in partnership with xxxxx Wildlife Trust, where they have recommended top bar hives for our joint purposes; the scope of our wider project is to improve the surrounding habitat for pollinators and to increase the numbers of bees in xxxxxx xxxxx. We are not looking to set up hives for honey production, and would prefer a more “hands off” approach and utilise the more natural conditions that top bar hives provide for the bees. We have also discussed this with Philip Chandler of Biobees (Barefoot Beekeeping) who has also recommended these hives. We are aware of the current issues with bees and disease as outlined by DEFRA, and will of course be setting up the relevant training for our groups looking after the hives, with regards to hive management, disease control etc.

Regards, xxxxx"

 

[jonnybeegood]

We recently received this request, make of it what you will:
"Hello,

I have an enquiry about bee keepers in the area of Gwent, I wonder if you can help – we (xxxxxxx Council) are setting up various community group bee keeping projects across the borough of xxxxxxx through the Nature Fund, where we are also providing training through the Barefoot Beekeeper (Biobees) as we are going to be setting up top bar hives.

I was wondering if there was any way you could possibly put us in touch with, or pass our details to, any bee keepers in the area who use top bar hives who would be willing to allow us to visit their hives as part of the training (it would probably only be for a couple of hours for one day), just so our beginners can gain an idea of this beekeeping method outside of the theory training. Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Many Thanks,

xxxx
Biodiversity Assistant"

and this:
Thank you for your reply, I appreciate you forwarding our request.


We are setting up hives on sites in partnership with xxxxx Wildlife Trust, where they have recommended top bar hives for our joint purposes; the scope of our wider project is to improve the surrounding habitat for pollinators and to increase the numbers of bees in xxxxxx xxxxx. We are not looking to set up hives for honey production, and would prefer a more “hands off” approach and utilise the more natural conditions that top bar hives provide for the bees. We have also discussed this with Philip Chandler of Biobees (Barefoot Beekeeping) who has also recommended these hives. We are aware of the current issues with bees and disease as outlined by DEFRA, and will of course be setting up the relevant training for our groups looking after the hives, with regards to hive management, disease control etc.

Regards, xxxxx"

Why do people think top bar hives are more natural? Bees dont naturally build their nest horizontally, they build it vertically, a standard hive design is more natural than a horizontal top bar hive. The only thing natural is building their own comb which you could do in a standard hive anyway?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

We recently received this request, make of it what you will:
"Hello,

I have an enquiry about bee keepers in the area of Gwent, I wonder if you can help – we (xxxxxxx Council) are setting up various community group bee keeping projects across the borough of xxxxxxx through the Nature Fund, where we are also providing training through the Barefoot Beekeeper (Biobees) as we are going to be setting up top bar hives.

I was wondering if there was any way you could possibly put us in touch with, or pass our details to, any bee keepers in the area who use top bar hives who would be willing to allow us to visit their hives as part of the training (it would probably only be for a couple of hours for one day), just so our beginners can gain an idea of this beekeeping method outside of the theory training. Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Many Thanks,

xxxx
Biodiversity Assistant"

and this:
Thank you for your reply, I appreciate you forwarding our request.


We are setting up hives on sites in partnership with xxxxx Wildlife Trust, where they have recommended top bar hives for our joint purposes; the scope of our wider project is to improve the surrounding habitat for pollinators and to increase the numbers of bees in xxxxxx xxxxx. We are not looking to set up hives for honey production, and would prefer a more “hands off” approach and utilise the more natural conditions that top bar hives provide for the bees. We have also discussed this with Philip Chandler of Biobees (Barefoot Beekeeping) who has also recommended these hives. We are aware of the current issues with bees and disease as outlined by DEFRA, and will of course be setting up the relevant training for our groups looking after the hives, with regards to hive management, disease control etc.

Regards, xxxxx"

I wonder if DEFRA have actually been consulted and what their thoughts on this scheme would be?

 

[Russel]

Both local SBI's informed but no reply??

 

[Fritillary]

If you look at the "Natural Beekeeping Forum" you can see that beekeepers with a wide range of approaches, and abilities, and hive types, post on it - just as on this one. Also that many there too consider the term "natural beekeeping" problematic. You can be a responsible or irresponsible beekeeper (whatever you consider that to be) of any persuasion, surely. (As far as swarming's concerned, I've done what you might call 'pre-emptive' splits in top bar hives according to Phil Chandler's guidelines. Of course people do, to make increase or otherwise.) There is this idea that bees hived in a top bar or a Warre are somehow, just for that reason alone, going to be different. But there's no reason to think that this is the case here; that this training wouldn't be sound. And the letter writer sounds perfectly well aware of bee diseases, DEFRA regs. etc. Why would you assume that the SBIs won't be informed??