National Varroa Week ?

[Finman]

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Now, it is time to send to China order that they start to make Varroa T Shirts.
It takes perhaps 2 months that shirts are in London harbour.

and all kind of stuff, buttons, pants, candies

 

[domino]

I did suggest that they ask local councils to ensure that any planting they do is bee friendly. Little practical things are going to have more of an impact that asking them to ban this and that etc

 

[greengumbo]

I did suggest that they ask local councils to ensure that any planting they do is bee friendly. Little practical things are going to have more of an impact that asking them to ban this and that etc

That would be a very good start.

 

[pargyle]

Many "natural beekeepers" are against:

treating at all for varroa
registering on Beebase (due to potential for Government action or summat)



(see recent discussions on natural beekeeping on treatment)

I would add I treat and am registered.

Yes ... but my suggestion was that hives were INSPECTED during this period and surely even 'more natural' beekeepers (and I'm in this camp) would seek to use some method of reducing Varroa numbers if there was a cause for concern ? I was not suggesting treating hives where there was low level or no infestation ...

And I'm certainly not looking for a discussion on the 'no treat', 'no chemicals', 'only natural products' issues. This is about a concerted effort by ALL beekeepers to reduce Varroa levels by a national, organised campaign during a specific, well advertised, time frame. I hope there are people in Local Associations as well as the BBKA reading this thread and thinking 'Is is possible ?'.

Thanks Finman - I think you can be included as an Honorary British Beekeeper ... if only for your humour !

 

[Finman]

Thanks Finman - I think you can be included as an Honorary British Beekeeper ... if only for your humour !

I will change the side of street if I see your coming.

If you shout to me, call Sir!

.

 

[BeeJayBee]

why is there not a 'National Varroa Week' where every beekeeper commits to inspecting and treating their hives for Varroa within that declared week ? (I'm suggesting a week but perhaps 10 days or 2 weeks may be more realistic to allow for people to take account of their personal circumstances or weather conditions).....

What do you think ? Any suggestions ?

There are a lot of national and international 'days' or 'weeks' that call for action of various sorts. The calendar is getting quite full.

I think, as do some others, that it would be difficult to co-ordinate nationally. I also think that it could be spoiled by alarmist and ignorant reporting in the media.

Some people won't inspect, because it's unnatural. Some people won't treat for varroa either because they're hoping to raise survivor bees or because it's unnatural. Some people say that colonies die, it's natural for the weakest fall by the wayside.

Some people will never join an organised anything, and wouldn't dream of getting involved or going along with anything somebody else tells them to do. They won't register their hives on Beebase either.

That said, I think it's a noble idea, and one that local groups could follow but as it's almost impossible to get three beekeepers to agree about anything I reckon it would be a difficult thing to do.

 

[madasafish]

Yes ... but my suggestion was that hives were INSPECTED during this period and surely even 'more natural' beekeepers (and I'm in this camp) would seek to use some method of reducing Varroa numbers if there was a cause for concern ? I was not suggesting treating hives where there was low level or no infestation ...

You miss my point.
No registration on Beebase = no inspection.

And Natural Beekeepers with warres may very well object to ANY inspection due to the inevitable major disruption...

The only way to MAKE it happen is legislation .. and enforcement.

Ain't going to happen.

 

[Skyhook]

Nice idea, but absolutely no point.

There is no treatment that is 100% effective. At the moment most beekeepers treat for varroa. Say you have 1,000 mites in a hive and apply a treatment that is 90% effective. You still have 100 mites in there, then a month later 200, 2 months later 400, 3 months later 800 etc, unless and until reduced by further intervention.

Re-infection from other colonies is minor compared with re-expansion within colonies; so even if you were able to get all beekeepers on board, there would be no benefit.

 

[greengumbo]

Re-infection from other colonies is minor compared with re-expansion within colonies; so even if you were able to get all beekeepers on board, there would be no benefit.
QUOTE]

Spot on.

 

[pargyle]

That said, I think it's a noble idea, and one that local groups could follow but as it's almost impossible to get three beekeepers to agree about anything I reckon it would be a difficult thing to do.

Totally agree ... never said it would be easy ... and there are many divisions within all sectors of beekeeping that provide for problems in implementing such an event. But .... as I said earlier ... it has to start somewhere ! I could see it being taken up in some Associations as a starting point and who knows, if there was a positive, proven, benefit then more would see the benefit.

 

[pargyle]

You miss my point.
No registration on Beebase = no inspection.

And Natural Beekeepers with warres may very well object to ANY inspection due to the inevitable major disruption...

The only way to MAKE it happen is legislation .. and enforcement.

Ain't going to happen.

Inspected by the Beekeeper themselves ... not by a Bee Inspector, sorry did not make myself clear !

 

[pargyle]

Nice idea, but absolutely no point.

There is no treatment that is 100% effective. At the moment most beekeepers treat for varroa. Say you have 1,000 mites in a hive and apply a treatment that is 90% effective. You still have 100 mites in there, then a month later 200, 2 months later 400, 3 months later 800 etc, unless and until reduced by further intervention.

Re-infection from other colonies is minor compared with re-expansion within colonies; so even if you were able to get all beekeepers on board, there would be no benefit.

Well ... whilst reinfection within colony is obviously the major source of infestation not so long ago Finman posted this piece of research:

"Untreated feral hives, what they can do

Journal of Apicultural Research
April 2011

Invasion of Varroa destructor mites into mite-free honey bee colonies under the controlled conditions of a military training area


Eva Frey, Hanna Schnell and Peter Rosenkranz

Abstract

The honey bee mite Varroa destructor can be spread between colonies by vertical transmission, particularly when heavily infested colonies are robbed by foraging bees from neighbouring hives. We quantified the invasion of V. destructor into mite free colonies on a military training area not accessible to other beekeepers. Ten "mite receiver colonies" continuously treated against V. destructor were placed at distances of one to 1.5 km from four heavily infested "mite donor colonies". Over a two month period from August to October, the population of bees, brood, and V. destructor in the donor colonies were estimated at three week intervals and the invasion of V. destructor into the receiver colonies was recorded every 7-12 days. During the experimental period, between 85 and 444 mites per colony were introduced into the receiver colonies. There were no significant differences in the invasion rates in relation to the distance between donor and receiver colonies. In total, 2,029 mites were found in the 10 receiver colonies, but these only correspond to 2.5% of the total mite population in the donor colonies at the start of the experiment. This means that the major part of the initial V. destructor population died together with the collapsed host colonies. Under natural conditions, a more benign behaviour should therefore be an adaptive strategy for V. destructor. From a practical perspective we could show that highly infested honey bee colonies present a substantial risk to already treated colonies up to distances of 1.5 km away."

So ... there may be a benefit if the majority of beekeepers within a geographic region made a concerted effort within a specific time frame to reduce the levels of Varroa within their hives ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

I wish you luck with your endeavors Phil, and hope you do well with your bees when you get started this spring, but i would not be taking part in this varroa treatment idea.

 

[pargyle]

I wish you luck with your endeavors Phil, and hope you do well with your bees when you get started this spring, but i would not be taking part in this varroa treatment idea.

Thanks HM. It's only an idea ... oddly enough everyone seems to be talking about the difficulty of organising it rather than bashing it as a partial solution to the Varroa problem. I'm not looking for the job as a potential organiser but I'm a little surprised that the BBKA has not thought of starting something along these lines ? Perhaps they recognise that it is a pipe dream ... Varroa free UK ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

prophylactic treatment of varroa is not the way forward, just my belief of course.

 

[pargyle]

prophylactic treatment of varroa is not the way forward, just my belief of course.

Yes .... I'm on your side HM ... my view is that, longer term, the bees have to find a way to protect themselves from the Varroa mite and the best way to achieve that is through strong colonies and breeding (far beyond my pay grade I'm afraid, at this stage).

But ... strong colonies on a wide scale (and with the majority of beekeepers actually treating their bees with proprietary or organic treatments) may only be possible if a concerted effort is taken to reduce the incidence of Varroa in the short term ?

 

[drumgerry]

Thanks HM. It's only an idea ... oddly enough everyone seems to be talking about the difficulty of organising it rather than bashing it as a partial solution to the Varroa problem. I'm not looking for the job as a potential organiser but I'm a little surprised that the BBKA has not thought of starting something along these lines ? Perhaps they recognise that it is a pipe dream ... Varroa free UK ?

I hate to tell you but the BBKA has no remit north of the border. Not sure about Wales.

 

[DanBee]

Nice idea, but it isn't going to work

Skyhook hit the nail on the head with the comment about efficacy. For this to have a marked effect, everybody would need to treat with a treatment of the same (high) efficacy at the same time, each year.

Compare sugar dusting at about 15% efficacy, IIRC, with Apivar at 98%. (I assume we would be allowed to use the most effective treatment under veterinary cascade in this scenario.) Have a look at pp10-11 in the current (brown) edition of Managing Varroa for charts of mite population growth following treatments varying in efficacy and the effect of re-invasion. Particularly fig. 13. For the sake of argument, call 80% shook swarm (it's only 70% effective, but...), 90% Thymol (estimates vary), and 99% Apivar... then look along and see how many days later the mite populations hit 1,000 mites:

Shook swarm: 80 days
Thymol: 110 days
Apivar: ~2 years

So the shook swarmed colonies collapse first, causing reinvasion of surrounding colonies; Thymol-treated collapse a month or so later or sooner if significantly reinvaded, and the collapse of Apivar-treated colonies is also accelerated...

The story is still the same even after the effort of organising and coordinating 'treatment day': the person with the least effective treatment (or no treatment) causes re-invasion pressures for his treating neighbours. All it takes is one person in each locality to take the view that the bees need no treatment...

 

[VEG]

not here either

 

[Skyhook]

prophylactic treatment of varroa is not the way forward, just my belief of course.

How would you get the mites to use them?


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