national brood box to 14X12

[Chaos72]

Thinking about spring expansion next year and after reading a bit I am starting to wonder if it would be sensible to think about changing from a standard national brood box to a 12 x 14 for next year. What I am struggling with is moving the bees from one size frame to the other?

can any one please advise on the procedure of how to do this?

many thanks in advance

 

[Tremyfro]

I want to do the reverse. I find the frames are so heavy to manipulate in the big brood box. I would rather go through 2 boxes with smaller frames.

 

[Chaos72]

Did you start with the 14 x 12 box? or convert?

 

[Swarm]

I want to do the reverse. I find the frames are so heavy to manipulate in the big brood box. I would rather go through 2 boxes with smaller frames.

Quite
Bailey change for both situations.

 

[Greatbigchicken]

Confused

I'm on double brood and am thinking to going to a single extra deep. I was a bit concerned about the weight, but moving brood boxes is very heavy and a lot of disruption to the bees. I'm still not totally sure what to do.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Thinking about spring expansion next year and after reading a bit I am starting to wonder if it would be sensible to think about changing from a standard national brood box to a 12 x 14 for next year. What I am struggling with is moving the bees from one size frame to the other?

can any one please advise on the procedure of how to do this?

many thanks in advance

several methods including shook swarm onto 14x12 or bailey comb change but i prefer the following

• in april (subject to weather) move the old 14x8 box to one side.
• place a 14x12 box with ten frames of foundation on the old site
• find the queen and place her and the frame she is on in the middle of the box of 14x12 foundation
• place a Queen excluder over the 14x12 box and queen
• place the 10 frames and 14x8 box over the QE, feed 1:1syrupand close up
  
• check in 4 and 7 days for Queen cells in the top box (destroy them if the queen is ok
  remove the top 14x8 box and feeder in 21 days time and shake any bees into the 14x12box

the 14x8 frame in the newboxbecomes your Drone frame

 

[kazmcc]

I want to do the reverse. I find the frames are so heavy to manipulate in the big brood box. I would rather go through 2 boxes with smaller frames.

Dusty has 12x14s and when I lifted a frame, I found it really hard to twist it to see the other side, but he showed me a method which is dead easy!! I have no trouble anymore. Am I preaching to the converted lol? You are probably well aware of this method already, just thought I'd mention it.

 

[Chaos72]

Fantastic, thank you all for the responses.

looks like I have a plan for next spring

 

[REDWOOD]

Bailey every time, don't bin your standard BB as it is easy to converted to a 14x12 BB, there are pros and cons but what suits your bees not you is always the best way to go.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Gosh, Kazmcc!

A fan club of one!

Yes, 14 x 12 frames can be heavy to handle, esp if full of stores.
And a full 14 x 12 brood box is a pig to move. But how often is that necessary?

On the plus side, it's far easier to inspect than two BBs (double brood or brood and a half). Moreover, the volume is closer to what a normal colony needs, even at the height of summer. And in winter, if properly filled with stores, the colony has sufficient stores for a normal winter in one box, and there is less risk of the brood not getting to stores in a super. And, in spring, there's no need to try to find the queen in a cool spring, to confine her to the lower box.

Having said that, our RBI doesn't like it - but I've not found out why.

As for manipulating a full 14 x 12 frame, I find the method I was taught, is easy to do but difficult to describe. But it's designed to avoid putting strain on the hands and the wax, when flipping the frame horizontally, then upside down.

1) holding the frame normally by the lugs, move your right hand to your left, across close to your stomach, and move the left hand outwards and across to the right. You end up with arms crossed, with the frame the other way round.
2) Then, on the verticle plane, lift your right hand (and frame) upwards and back across. This twists the frame on its axis, so it ends upside down, in front of your face. The weight is taken by the side of the frame, not the field of wax.
3) Reverse to lower it.

I suggest practicing on a frame without bees!

Dusty

 

[psafloyd]

Thinking about spring expansion next year and after reading a bit I am starting to wonder if it would be sensible to think about changing from a standard national brood box to a 12 x 14 for next year. What I am struggling with is moving the bees from one size frame to the other?

can any one please advise on the procedure of how to do this?

many thanks in advance

Instead of buying a new big box, you could try an adapter from Thorne. I have used one for the past couple of years and it works well.

I don't like the frames on 14 x 12 but it does make more space.

 

[itma]

Thinking about spring expansion next year and after reading a bit I am starting to wonder if it would be sensible to think about changing from a standard national brood box to a 12 x 14 for next year. What I am struggling with is moving the bees from one size frame to the other?

can any one please advise on the procedure of how to do this?

many thanks in advance

Instead of buying a new big box, you could try an adapter from Thorne. I have used one for the past couple of years and it works well.

I don't like the frames on 14 x 12 but it does make more space.

Actually the Maisemore one is a better idea. It goes under the old brood, whereas Thorne's version goes on top - meaning that to transfer using T's version, you have to remove all the frames and bees, and the rails (can't on a Maisemore or Caddon hive - rails are part of the side wall) before fitting the eke, refitting the rails and replacing frames and bees …
With an under-eke you just lift the (complete) brood box (and cover) off the floor, place the eke on the floor, and then put the brood box onto the eke. Job done!
If you do it at the end of Winter, you can remove some empty frames and replace them with 14x12 - be prepared to feed while there is foundation to be drawn, but its simple to 'work' the short frames to the outside and then replace with a 14x12 at the other end of the hive.

 

[Chaos72]

Thank you all, some thinking and decisions to make but defiantly better informed

 

[kazmcc]

On the plus side, it's far easier to inspect than two BBs (double brood or brood and a half). Moreover, the volume is closer to what a normal colony needs, even at the height of summer. And in winter, if properly filled with stores, the colony has sufficient stores for a normal winter in one box, and there is less risk of the brood not getting to stores in a super. And, in spring, there's no need to try to find the queen in a cool spring, to confine her to the lower box.

This is why I want to convert to 12x14. Now I know how to handle the frames I see no problem in that, because, as you said, how often do you need to move the BB, and I'd struggle anyway with a National full, so would need a hand anyway. I hated brood and a half, and I suspect I'd hate double brood just as much - too messy and I didn't like the sight of all those exposed larvae.

How would you convert a National then? I suppose add a super on top or below the brood box then just use 12 x 14 frames? Or is there something I've missed?

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

You just get a special eke, Kazmcc.

On the subject of moving heavy BBs, you just need to call on a kind and generous local Beek to do it for you.

If you can find one.

Dusty

 

[Tremyfro]

I am going to do a baileys in the spring. In the jumbo BB even using the method described...I still found it tricky...my arms are not really long enough and my left hand is a bit weak...don't trust it to hold the weight. Also, even with the deep jumbo frames we still needed an extra box for half brood this summer...so many bees. Q laid it up immediately...so she needed the space. Managed to avoid a swarm this summer. Even the nuc needed brood and a half. Going into hives tomorrow to see where we are at in regard to space. Hoping to harvest some of the supers too....our first proper harvest. Borrowed the club extractor. Just hoping we won't smash the comb. Some is non foundation. We are going to do some comb honey if it is good enough.

 

[kazmcc]

On the subject of moving heavy BBs, you just need to call on a kind and generous local Beek to do it for you.

If you can find one.

Hmmm, where could I find one of those I wonder.....................

 

[Blue Spinnaker]

Hmmm, where could I find one of those I wonder.....................

I chose 14x12, I am quite small and fairly weak, haven't needed to move the BB yet, but the frames are quite manageable and there are the positives of the extra space for bees in summer and for stores in winter.
I have left one of the national frames in for drone brood/varroa control.

 

[REDWOOD]

You can make the converters for a standard BB quite cheaply

 

[td4bees]

what in a name