My own queens have defensive workers

[RogerIvy]

I've come to the conclusion that my own queens mate with drones with defensive genetics. Perhaps I'm doomed to having to purchase new queens instead of rearing my own.
Each time I rear a queen or I have a supersedure I land up buying a queen to replace her because the offspring are too defensive.

Has anyone else got this problem?

 

[Wilco]

I've come to the conclusion that my own queens mate with drones with defensive genetics. Perhaps I'm doomed to having to purchase new queens instead of rearing my own.
Each time I rear a queen or I have a supersedure I land up buying a queen to replace her because the offspring are too defensive.

Has anyone else got this problem?

I have this at some sites - certain areas there seem to be issues, others not. Does make you question yourself at times! I'm trying to be much more brutal with my tolerance level for defensiveness. Having more mini mating nucs helps as you can rear more queens and only keep the really good ones.

 

[BigAshW]

I have an apiary that I refuse to mate queen's in as they always become nasty, so when I demaree I'll pull a nuc off the top box with a cell and take it to a better site and then use that queen to reintroduce.

Unfortunately you can't control the drones around you without some cooperation with other beeks and even then you're fighting against the feral colonies around as well.

 

[RogerIvy]

Five new queens arrived today. Hopefully have calmer bees soon.

 

[BigAshW]

Good luck.

It sounds like an expensive way to continue long term though. Do you have any opportunity to access a site further away from your apiary that you can get some of your own queen's mated?

Would just need space for a couple of poly nucs.

 

[Bryang]

I've come to the conclusion that my own queens mate with drones with defensive genetics. Perhaps I'm doomed to having to purchase new queens instead of rearing my own.
Each time I rear a queen or I have a supersedure I land up buying a queen to replace her because the offspring are too defensive.

Has anyone else got this problem?

I had this problem when I was using Buckfast Qs. If a raised a Q from a Buckfast Q the workers were mental. So bad that they were completly unmanagable. My son in law on one occation took so many stings to his face ( there were so many bees on his veil that it partially collapsed onto his face) that he went into anaphalatic shock... We solved the problem when JBM reffered us to Ricky Wilson (RIP). His bees were loveley to work with, and we could leave them to rear a new Q, they would usually supersede at the end of the Q's second year.

 

[RogerIvy]

Good luck.

It sounds like an expensive way to continue long term though. Do you have any opportunity to access a site further away from your apiary that you can get some of your own queen's mated?

Would just need space for a couple of poly nucs.

We’re talking to someone that lives about five miles away, we may keep two hives there and probably use a nicot system or graft from there.

 

[RogerIvy]

I had this problem when I was using Buckfast Qs. If a raised a Q from a Buckfast Q the workers were mental. So bad that they were completly unmanagable. My son in law on one occation took so many stings to his face ( there were so many bees on his veil that it partially collapsed onto his face) that he went into anaphalatic shock... We solved the problem when JBM reffered us to Ricky Wilson (RIP). His bees were loveley to work with, and we could leave them to rear a new Q, they would usually supersede at the end of the Q's second year.

We’re thinking of trying one or two different queens. Strangely our worst colony this year was a purchased F1 Buckfast.

 

[Bryang]

We’re thinking of trying one or two different queens. Strangely our worst colony this year was a purchased F1 Buckfast.

We tried F1 Buckfast from 3 different suppliers, had the same problems with them all. The last Q I bought was from MBC, Can't fault her, at present she is in a double brood with 4 supers on top. I'm waiting for my granddaughter to return from holiday to take the supers off

 

[RogerIvy]

We tried F1 Buckfast from 3 different suppliers, had the same problems with them all. The last Q I bought was from MBC, Can't fault her, at present she is in a double brood with 4 supers on top. I'm waiting for my granddaughter to return from holiday to take the supers off

Who are MBC?

 

[Bryang]

Who are MBC?

He is on this group, based near Carmarthen SW Wales. Very helpful. Correction His name "tag" should be in lower case, ie mbc

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Who are MBC?

Mêl Bae Ceredigion - Cardigan Bay Honey

 

[holmbee]

He is also selling Qs on BIBBA. Very pleased with the ones I have bought.

 

[RogerIvy]

So why are Buckfast so popular when you can’t breed F2 and F3 from them without defensive bees?

 

[JamezF]

So why are Buckfast so popular when you can’t breed F2 and F3 from them without defensive bees?

Perhaps because it isn't really true?

There's a large element of confirmation bias in this I suspect. That some people have had F2 daughters of Buckfast queens that have excessively defensive progeny is certainly not in doubt, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's because the queen is an F2 Buckfast, nor that all F2 Buckfast queens have defensive workers. I wonder how many swarms are lost from colonies headed by a Buckfast queen and caught by another beek who has no problem with them?

James

 

[rolande]

I wonder how many swarms are lost from colonies headed by a Buckfast queen and caught by another beek who has no problem with them?

James

But at that stage, they're 'local' bees

 

[Peterjay]

Do some people have bees that are always perfectly calm under all conditions and at all times?
None of my bees are or are descended from a purchased queen bee. Sometimes a colony has been unpleasant to inspect; none of them has ever produced bees that chase me or anyone else away without serious provocation.
There are plenty of beekeepers around me and , so it would be very surprising if they have no mixed genetics from Buckfast bees, amongst others.
In my four years of experience I have found that my worst experiences have been on less than ideal days when it has been a bit windy or with no sunshine, and/or when the bees are having "queen issues"; couldn't that be the same for all types of honeybee?

 

[ericbeaumont]

So why are Buckfast so popular when you can’t breed F2 and F3 from them without defensive bees?

I knew a competent and capable beekeeper who used only Buckfast fom Ged Marshall from the day he started, and got to the ninth daughter before he noticed a slight decline in temper.

A lot depends on the flavour of drones in your area; I have an idea that in London many beginners buy Buckfast and lose them to swarms.

 

[Bryang]

My local problem with over defensive,nasty bees we atributted to a local beekeeper who struggled with vandalism, some of his local head bangers thought it was great fun to push over his hives and run away. So he delibretly kept "defensive" bees to protect his hives. A member of this forumn was for a while a SBI.. On his first visit to "Daft Dai" he had to use a crowbar to seperate the hive boxes.

 

[Swarm]

Do some people have bees that are always perfectly calm under all conditions and at all times?
None of my bees are or are descended from a purchased queen bee. Sometimes a colony has been unpleasant to inspect; none of them has ever produced bees that chase me or anyone else away without serious provocation.
There are plenty of beekeepers around me and , so it would be very surprising if they have no mixed genetics from Buckfast bees, amongst others.
In my four years of experience I have found that my worst experiences have been on less than ideal days when it has been a bit windy or with no sunshine, and/or when the bees are having "queen issues"; couldn't that be the same for all types of honeybee?

I can think of two I've had that were perfect, other beekeeper visitors couldn't believe how calm they were.
Two is a very small percentage, mind