mini nuc to full sized nuc?

[trihy120]

thinking of getting some mini nucs for next year and am wondering if i make them in may, should i have a strong nuc going into the winter (or possibly in full brood chamber)?
thanks

 

[drstitson]

mini-nucs are for mating queens in.

you mean nucs don't you?

get a queen emerged, mated and laying well in may and you can certainly make up a strong nuc to introduce her to.

 

[RoofTops]

As above - which means you get a mated queen and if you then want her to head a new colony you need to add her to a new queenless colony made up of frames from a full sized hive. The more frames you can spare the better but you could get away with 3 possibly but 5 would be better. The more frames you start with the better the chance of having a full sized colony at the end of the season. For example, if you started with only 2 frames you may only get to 5 frame nuc size by the end of the season - but much depends on the weather and availability of forage and feeding of course. For example you could feed them fondant throughout the summer and that would probably help them build up faster.

I think it would also be possible to start with a mini nuc and grow it into a full sized colony without adding extra bees but this would be chancier and is not something I have done - but I don't see why it would not work. You could tie the frames of the mini nuc to the top bars of a few frames, with starter strips either side or ideally use frames of drawn comb and cut a hole for the mini-nuc frames and then just let them get on with it in a nuc, ideally one well insulated. Constant feeding would be necessary at least to start with as the colony would be very short of stores.

 

[Poly Hive]

I did it and posted it somewhere here.

Mini nuc had a three frame "super" on it I made up from floormate, then when she was up in there laying I put in excluder to keep her there, then when those frames were well occupied, and that took near 6 weeks, I added another the same, as in three super frames, and when they were well on I added a full super to make it 6 with brood and five with out, then by going plus one I had them up to near a full super. Then the masive jump of adding a brood box.

It takes time and some extra kit but it can be done.

PH

 

[MJBee]

If you use an Apidea mini nuc the frames will fit into a very slightly modified Nat super frame. I was going to try this but played safe and introduced the mated queen into a 6 frame full size nuc.

Sorry picture failed to upload will try again

 

[MJBee]

The missing picture

is still missing!!!

 

[MJBee]

Final attempt

 

[keith pierce]

Another question somewhat on the same line. If you put 300ml of bees into an apidea, how much would you need to put into a poly nuc with full frames of stores and a virgin queen(late may), so that would be able to be strong enought to overwinter.

 

[Poly Hive]

If you are asking what weight of bees then a package of at least three pounds would probably do it. However I would set that up myself with a mated queen not a virgin.

Also I would look to add at least one if not three frames of brood to help the cause as your shook bees are literally dying day by day.

If you could offer some more information as to your thoughts then we can offer more targeted advice.

PH

 

[keith pierce]

If you are asking what weight of bees then a package of at least three pounds would probably do it. However I would set that up myself with a mated queen not a virgin.
Also I would look to add at least one if not three frames of brood to help the cause as your shook bees are literally dying day by day.


If you could offer some more information as to your thoughts then we can offer more targeted advice.

PH

That would give you a nuc that should be strong enought to go into a hive within a month or two ,weather permitting. 3 pounds of bees is about what comes with package bees(i think).




These are just thoughts that come into my head when i am off in the far off place.


I over winter all my hive on 12 frames and in the spring i take out a full frame of stores and replace with a dummy board, so i have a lot of full frames of stores.They never go to waste, but what i was thinking was. When i was making up apideas, if i put in a pint an a half of bees with a virgen into a polynuc for warmth, would have built up sufficently to go throught the winter. That is persuming that she had a perfect mating and was laying within 12 days. Sometime
I am not looking for anymore full hives going into the winter as i have them all full and dont want to increase anymore. I also have about 20 nucs to replace winter losses. These were late nucs that i made up and were not strong enought to go into a hive.

What sparked of this idea.
Sometime when you make up an apidea, it quickly outgrows its small home and you have to start swapping it around with a weaker apidea or take out a frame of brood or stores to give it space.So why not give it that extra cup of bees at the start of the years and let it develop.

So why do i want to try it.
If something like this would be a success , then i would be able to fill up 20 or thirty nucs with a minuim amout of bees early this year, and that would be ready for the beginners next year. Thus taking the pressure of me during my busytime.

What do you think.

 

[Poly Hive]

I would use the mini nucs to mate the queens as you are, then when mated set up the nucs with three frames of brood and bees, mind you need sufficient bees to support the brood then intro the queen. If mated by June the nucs will be strong enough to take a super and give you some heather, plus some heather work will trim back the numbers a bit.

A half size super that is.

Going back to your apideas, how would you propose to make the jump from that to a full nuc? The one I did took two seasons in all before it was a full colony. It's a massive jump from four wee combs to three National super frames. And that was in a poly eke to boot.

PH

 

[keith pierce]

I would use the mini nucs to mate the queens as you are, then when mated set up the nucs with three frames of brood and bees, mind you need sufficient bees to support the brood then intro the queen. If mated by June the nucs will be strong enough to take a super and give you some heather, plus some heather work will trim back the numbers a bit.

A half size super that is.

PH

I dont want anymore honey either.

 

[beebreeder]

It can be done, build up your Mini Nuc up to bursting and then put it on top of a 5 frame nuc with one frame of emerging brood, and fill the box with frames of food and drawn foundation. Open the slide of the floor of the Mini over the feed hole and let the bees traffic the Nuc box, feed from the nuc box and after a few weeks the queen can be placed below a piece of plastic excluder, when all the brood has hatched in the Mini drive the bees down with smoke and remove the Mini Nuc, keep feeding and restict the entrance to stop robbing.
Like I say it does work and I have wintered nucs years ago made this way. I do not do it this way now as I want all the Mini Nucs for queen mating, it was just an experiment. If the flow stops keep feeding with neopol or similar to keep the new queen laying.
Kev

 

[trihy120]

As above - which means you get a mated queen and if you then want her to head a new colony you need to add her to a new queenless colony made up of frames from a full sized hive. The more frames you can spare the better but you could get away with 3 possibly but 5 would be better. The more frames you start with the better the chance of having a full sized colony at the end of the season. For example, if you started with only 2 frames you may only get to 5 frame nuc size by the end of the season - but much depends on the weather and availability of forage and feeding of course. For example you could feed them fondant throughout the summer and that would probably help them build up faster.

I think it would also be possible to start with a mini nuc and grow it into a full sized colony without adding extra bees but this would be chancier and is not something I have done - but I don't see why it would not work. You could tie the frames of the mini nuc to the top bars of a few frames, with starter strips either side or ideally use frames of drawn comb and cut a hole for the mini-nuc frames and then just let them get on with it in a nuc, ideally one well insulated. Constant feeding would be necessary at least to start with as the colony would be very short of stores.

was thinking more along the lines of what keith pierce said but thanks anyway

 

[keith pierce]

i will give it a try this year with just a virgin queen and about a pound and a half a bees and see how they get on.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am frankly confused Keith.

Why go to the bother of making the kit, one off kit at that, to take the mini through to full colony which in due course will make honey you say you don't want?

Bees make honey.

PH

 

[keith pierce]

I dont want anymore full colonies or i dont want anymore honey. what i want is for them just to grow into a starter nuc for the beginners in spring 2013 and no more.

 

[Poly Hive]

Ok fair enough.

Would it not be much easier to take of some frames of bees and brood then give a cell and let them take off from there? That is a far easier route and requires no extra making of kit?

PH

 

[Hebeegeebee]

It can be done, build up your Mini Nuc up to bursting and then put it on top of a 5 frame nuc with one frame of emerging brood, and fill the box with frames of food and drawn foundation. Open the slide of the floor of the Mini over the feed hole and let the bees traffic the Nuc box, feed from the nuc box and after a few weeks the queen can be placed below a piece of plastic excluder, when all the brood has hatched in the Mini drive the bees down with smoke and remove the Mini Nuc, keep feeding and restict the entrance to stop robbing.
Like I say it does work and I have wintered nucs years ago made this way. I do not do it this way now as I want all the Mini Nucs for queen mating, it was just an experiment. If the flow stops keep feeding with neopol or similar to keep the new queen laying.
Kev

I've done it too although I have some mini-nucs that are a bit bigger than the usual little polystyrene ones to start with. Keep feeding from the top and the queen goes down to the nuc and the mini-nuc gets filled with stores.

 

[keith pierce]

Ok fair enough.

Would it not be much easier to take of some frames of bees and brood then give a cell and let them take off from there? That is a far easier route and requires no extra making of kit?

PH

You are like my internet wife and just wont see where i am coming from.
So here goes.... I am sorry, you were right and i was wrong..
Happy christmas love.


PS.. behind your back i am going to have a go at it anyway. If it does not work out and it is getting late in the season i can always add one of your frames of brood.