mini nuc to full sized nuc?

[mbc]

You are like my internet wife and just wont see where i am coming from.
So here goes.... I am sorry, you were right and i was wrong..
Happy christmas love.


PS.. behind your back i am going to have a go at it anyway. If it does not work out and it is getting late in the season i can always add one of your frames of brood.

Whilst thoroughly enjoying your appraisal of PH's responses to your posts, I have to admit, applying any sort of time in motion study to beekeeping effort, he's quite correct in this instance.
Nadolig llawen pawb.
Merry Christmas all.

 

[Poly Hive]

Good luck Keith, I fully see what you are saying and I am merely pointing out the pitfalls in taking a very long way round to achieve what is normally a very straight forward operation.

Merry Christmas.

PH

 

[Meg]

Hi Keith,

I have done something similar, but not entirely without some original brood on a frame. I find that the problem is I want to keep the bees in that I have shaken in and giving some open brood gives them something to concentrate on. I introduce a sealed (and protected) Q cell due to hatch a day or so later - same as with an apidea. Plugging the entrance with grass helps if I cannot get back to open them up - I think it is a good idea to shut them in for atleast a day or so until they become a 'unit'.

My best early nucs ( for the following spring that is) are ones made up in August from a few frames, or are lots of Apidea frames stacked up when I am breaking the mating units down. I have 6 going through the winter now for next year made up this way and they all seem to be thriving. Making them up late seems to avoid that - are they too big? problem and also avoids the wasps as the queens are mated and with a one bee entrance they are happy.

Meg

 

[Finman]

The more frames you can spare the better but you could get away with 3 possibly but 5 would be better. .

That will ruin the yield of main hive.

You may start with one brood frame + 2 empty combs, but it is better in the middle of summer. Then at the end of yield you may give the whole box of bees or split your main hive into 2.

First job is to get the main hive as big as possible.
Second job is to prevent swarming, or at least not to loose the swarm.
A third job is to harvest summer yield.

Perhaps you get a escaped swarm and you get a start to your hive.

 

[Meg]

You are missing the point Finman - he doesn't want more honey - read his posts.

We all keep bees differently and for different reasons. You obviously do not keep yours for the same reasons as many others on this and other forums. Fair enough, but if you are giving advice, you could think about what they are asking rather than giving generic information from your 40 odd years of experience.

Meg

 

[Poly Hive]

The OP asked this:

"thinking of getting some mini nucs for next year and am wondering if i make them in may, should i have a strong nuc going into the winter (or possibly in full brood chamber)?
thanks"

Hence my answer then Keith got into the subject. Hence again I put up the pics and so on to try and get over that to do it is yes possible, but it takes a lot longer than one would think casually.

The main obstacle is to make the move from full mini to the mini super that I made that took four frames. That proved to be a huge jump that took them near a month to achieve.

Interesting to do but it does take time.

PH

 

[Finman]

You are missing the point Finman - he doesn't want more honey - read his posts.

We all keep bees differently and for different reasons. You obviously do not keep yours for the same reasons as many others on this and other forums. Fair enough, but if you are giving advice, you could think about what they are asking rather than giving generic information from your 40 odd years of experience.

Meg

yes, most of this forum keep bees that they can do social plaa plaa plaa .

You are stupid Meg. A free advice. 49 years experience, if I not count these Br. forum years missed.

Yes he asked how to make mininuc strong for winter. That needs 50 yeeARS EXPERIENCE...

"thinking of getting some mini nucs for next year and am wondering if i make them in may, should i have a strong nuc going into the winter (or possibly in full brood chamber)?
thanks"

.

 

[Finman]

Another question somewhat on the same line. If you put 300ml of bees into an apidea, how much would you need to put into a poly nuc with full frames of stores and a virgin queen(late may), so that would be able to be strong enought to overwinter.

That is hopeless job. That has no meaning. At least I try to find something else to do.

 

[keith pierce]

that is hopeless job. That has no meaning. At least i try to find something else to do.

meow!!!

 

[Meg]

Thanks Finman for your decision on my intelligence - good of you to just stick with stupid. No, it does not need 50 years of experience to make something strong enough to get through the winter. Get off your high horse and stick with relevant advice please rather than trying to defend your defenseless position.

Yes, you are right Poly Hive - I was replying to Keith's posts and not the original poster. However, I think the answer was relevant. I have found that it is difficult to build up just from the queen and frames from one mini nuc into a full size nuc and then onwards again. However, if you have used queens from say 3 mini nucs and still have one left in a 4th, then combining all the bees gives you a fighting start to have enough to give you a good size nuc to overwinter.

trihy120 you don't say where you are in England and I would suggest the success or otherwise of your venture would depend somewhat on your local conditions. Should be feasable 'though.

Best Wishes,

Meg

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Thanks Finman for your decision on my intelligence - good of you to just stick with stupid. No, it does not need 50 years of experience to make something strong enough to get through the winter. Get off your high horse and stick with relevant advice please rather than trying to defend your defenseless position.
Meg

Well said, Meg.

Bit of a bully, our Finman. Pity, really. Sometimes he seems worth listening to.
(And I speak as someone with no bees whatsoever!)

 

[Poly Hive]

Meg, again getting back to the OP question, it is a matter of time. Can it be done in one year from an early mated mini, I frankly doubt it. Certainly my one go at it said it was not at all feasible. Plus it needed special adapted kit made.

Of course if you unite say five units then it might be a go. Otherwise no.

PH

 

[Meg]

Poly Hive,

Hmmm - still possible if you go from a May mated queen in a mini nuc, but blooming hard work! Not the way I would choose to do it, but then that wasn't the question.

With no special adaptation, but using drawn comb and a frame feeder, then I reckon that it could be done - I will try it next year just to see....and yes Finman, someone may well have tried it before, but it will be fun for me to give it a go alongside the rest of my beekeeping.

An early queen laying well should be able to lay up a couple of drawn frames quite well in June and have enough bees to look after a reasonable number of the larvae. That would then equate to a small nuc in July (such as many beginners end up buying) and so be perfectly feasible to be well prepared for the Winter and depending on the weather even into a full sized brood box.

Meg

 

[Hivemaker.]

I know this thread is about starting up a mini from scratch in spring, and build it up,i have not done this,but i have made up very strong colonys in autumn from lots of mini nucs,as i'm sure many others here have as well.

Last spring i did take four strong over wintered double decker kielers, and shake all the bees into four separate five frame nuc boxs, with all drawn combs,one comb in each with emerging brood from a full size hive,two empty,two with food, and two of these went on to fill a full size brood box,and fill one super with honey,the other two built up strong enough for winter,in fact i removed some frames of brood from these two to use elswhere.

 

[Finman]

Well said, Meg.

Bit of a bully, our Finman. Pity, really. Sometimes he seems worth listening to.
(And I speak as someone with no bees whatsoever!)

worth listening stupid ideas? Why?

i rear every year about 40 mating nucs. They have 3 normal frames.
I have splitted poly box with table saw to 3 pieces.

It starts with minimum amount of bees, which is one frame covered.

When the queen lays 10 days later, I add one frame of emerging brood. Then the nuc covers 3 frames and the queen is able to lay them full.

When I take some queen away, I join the nest to another. I just pile them, and then the hive has 6 frames bees and brood. When those brood emerge, I have full box of bees.


In autumn I join the rest mating nucs to each other or strenghten week colonies.

Sercet is well insulated polystyrene boxes. The entrance is 2x2 cm. Not a mesh floor.

It is very simple to make strong colonies and nucs for winter, here in cold county in a short summer.

You just accept the limits and speed how the colony grows. Don't try to fight against them.
Summer is too short to it. I start nuc rearing after 15,6, when main hives are strong.

A free advice: Don't ventilate too much your small colonies and don't keep empty space in them.
If you get 2 small swarms, join them to get at least one full box. You may support a swarm too with brood frame.

 

[keith pierce]

Another question somewhat on the same line. If you put 300ml of bees into an apidea, how much would you need to put into a poly nuc with full frames of stores and a virgin queen(late may), so that would be able to be strong enought to overwinter.

That was my origional post.
Sorry, but mabe i should of started a new thread and not confused it with mini mating nuc's. there are advert of package bees been sold in the uk that One purchaser reported having had six supers on, at the end of the year.

For the third year we have been able to supply successfully packs of bees complete with mated queen. They come in two hive, two kilo packs with two seperately caged queens.
These packages, which are usually available during the first or second week of April, are ideal for increasing stocks or making up for winter losses. They are however only suitable for the serious beekeeper as different handling techniques are necessary.

One purchaser reported having had six supers on each of four hives in that season. Packages generally have greater momentum than other forms of increasing stocks subject of course to correct handling.

The question that i am asking is how much bees would i have to put into a nuc,so that it would be capable of filling out properly, a six frame nuc to go into the winter, without having to add frames of brood . I do not want them to progress on to fill 6 supers of honey, nor do i want them to progress on to fill out a full brood box, as i have reached my capacity of what full hive's i can handle. all i want is for them to come throught the winter as a strong nuc and as soon as i have acessed them in late spring i can pass them on to beginners .

Poly... Hazard a guess at what weight of bees, and please dont tell me add a frame of brood.

 

[Finman]

.
Two kilo swarm occupyes a whole Langstroth box. A swarm bee has stomach full, and its own weigh is about 100 mg and honey load 70 mg. how the bees have been weighed, stomach full or not, i do not know.

What ever, 2 kg start is very good.

After 4 weeks new bees emerge with good speed. The hive grows, but how much? How much the combs have had space for brood and how much food?

After 6 weeks new bees start to forage. New bees emerge every day. it depends again, how much the hive has space for brood and how much honey takes space.

At this stage if the colony has too much honey, it want to swarm because the queen has not enough space to lay.

this is only one story, how it may go. 7 supers! They are rare. Don't be afraid. Every super has 15 kg honey. It makes a 100 kg.

Further more the hive needs to draw 8 boxes foundations. It makes 40 kg honey to draw them.

My experience is that a 2 kg swarm brings 20-30 kg honey, not 100 kg. The seller over advertise his packages.


.

 

[Hivemaker.]

About a pound to a pound and a half of bees if using a virgin queen, (mated would be much better) make sure they are young bees,there will be a risk of them leaving as a swarm/cast,more so with older bees,but with a mated queen at least you can use an excluder to keep the queen in for a few days, until she is laying and they have young brood. If by any chance it is a good season, and they are getting too strong at any stage, then shake some bees out in front of some of your other hives,or remove some brood,or even make up another nuc by splitting them.

 

[keith pierce]

Thank you very much hive maker. i will give it a try and let you know how i get on.

 

[Poly Hive]

Keith to set the record straight I never mentioned adding brood. I told you how long it tould take to take a mini to a full colony, and I might add YOU never mentioned you were wanting to discuss packages.

Getting a two pound package to have 6 supers on it is easy. Put bees in hive, put on excluder and any fool can add 6 empty supers. Do I believe the claim? In a word NO.

I found three pound packages got to a full colony from mid April and a few combs of honey but that is all.

Happy New Year, and if anything at all this thread demonstrates that expressing a clear question is very helpful.

PH