Mildew/mould

[Moobee]

We have friends who pay a small fortune for raw food for their dogs and it comes wrapped in wool insulation so I get them to save it all to go round the feeders.

 

[B_north]

I repurpose down pillows and duvet in my top boxes but I wrap them in plastic so they don't mould and get wet. If down gets wet it loses it's insulation value.

 

[Rob H]

Sheet of insulation in the roof, sheet of insulation in an eke with a takeaway tub-sized cutout in the centre. Takeaway tub lids cover any holes in the crownboard.
If they need a topup over winter simply remove the cutout and tub lid and place a tub of fondant over the hole.

I remove the insulated eke over the summer, but leave the insulation in the roof year round. It's just a good at helping them deal with the sun beating down on the metal roof as it is at keeping them warm in winter.
View attachment 34089

Treated Rough sawn Whitewood Timber (L)1.8m (W)50mm (T)22mm | DIY at B&Q cut into 4x 438mm lengths and screw/nail/glue into a square

Recticel Instafit Polyurethane Insulation board (L)1.2m (W)0.45m (T)50mm of 1 | DIY at B&Q cut to size will fit a roof+eke

GTSE Wide Adhesive Aluminium Foil Tape Silver 75mm (3") x 50m | DIY at B&Q Alu tape for the exposed edges - the bees shouldn't have access to them, but if the bees can get to them then the tape prevents them from chewing it.

I've cut all mine to be a very snug fit, so nothing more than friction needed to hold the insulation in place, but you can glue it.

This looks like exactly the idea Im looking for to save having to pay a fortune for Abelo Poly Roofs!! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Lazy K]

Im glad you said that. This year I have put my colonies onto UFE's with solid floors and the idea of too much condensation was worrying me. We did have a guest speaker a few years ago at the local BK association who was advocating reduced ventilation as it allowed the bees to keep the colony warmer easier and to manage airflow better, with any condensation providing an over winter water source for them, but it it doesn't stop the jitters in the first year of changes.

I agree about having the jitters! This is my first year with bees and I have the Paradise poly hives. And it is recommended that you leave the screened bottom open, a reduced entrance and no other ventilation. Sounds counter intuitive but I'm doing it. So far so good although I admit when we had 2 nights of unusually extreme cold I put the varroa boards in place and threw a loose blanket over the hives.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

This looks like exactly the idea Im looking for to save having to pay a fortune for Abelo Poly Roofs!! Thanks for sharing.

Perhaps when your honey harvest starts and if you encounter the convenience and ease of handling the Abelo deep roof you might have a change of heart? It's only a few jars of honey in price. (Depending on your location and the price you can command)

 

[user 20297]

This looks like exactly the idea Im looking for to save having to pay a fortune for Abelo Poly Roofs!! Thanks for sharing.

The current price of the deep Abelo roof is £31.60. The thickness of the dense poly is about 25mm (from a cursory examination....it is Christmas Day!). The U-value of the material isn't given, but from its density I assume that is it approximately the same as PIR insulation, so a roof made from 25mm of Kingspan or similar would give an equivalent R-value. I make them from 50mm PIR, but obviously, 25mm PIR is about half the price I also make crownboards from 25mm PIR; in combination with a 25mm thick roof this gives the sort of top insulation that many beekeepers recommend.

In December 2022 I'm seeing prices up to £20 for a sheet of 25mm PIR; from the big DIY sheds it will be much more. With careful planning it should be possible to cut four National roofs from one 1200 x 600mm sheet of (eg.) Kingspan. With 50mm sheets I cut four squares measuring a generous 560 x 560mm; with 25mm it would be 510 x 510mm. I cut my side pieces as deep as my remaining material will allow and 510mm (485mm) long. The whole lot is assembled without skewers or similar and bonded simply using PU sealant with masking tape as temporary holding (not really needed) and a few bricks on the top to keep it tight whilst the adhesive cures.; I guess many other types of cartridged adhesive would work. I use a spare bee-box as a jig in order to square things up and to ensure a sliding fit; I like them a bit tighter than standard roofs so for free movement others might want to add a few millimetres to my measurements. I find that with care, odd sized pieces can be bonded together in order to avoid wastage.

Once the adhesive has set I cover the cut edges with aluminium tape and paint the outside. In order to avoid creepy-crawlies nesting in the internal joints I apply sealant to those. I picked up another trick elsewhere on the forum and bonded-on some plastic angle at the point where my hive -strap cuts across...it saves damaging the corners. Best precision of assembly and fit depends on great care with measurements and use of the handsaw in particular. A bench-saw would make light work of this. Making everything a bit oversize reduces the chances of the roof not being a sliding fit.

This means that for a bit of very simple work, (PIR is easily cut with a handsaw), you can make a roof for around £8.00 all-in. In my experience this stuff is a lot tougher than many people think, especially once painted and I'm going into year four with my first prototypes which were based on @Erichalfbee 's examples.

If I get round to adding images to this they won't be very good and it's one of my scruffier ones with wrinkled paint, (again..it's Christmas Day), but some of mine are made from the offcuts and/or have additional layers added at a later date...with a good adhesive that's very easy to do.

 

[JamezF]

It's half-tempting to bond suitably-formed bits of timber to the top and bottom edges of bits of PIR to support frames/make a bee space/provide a workable area for a hive tool and make an entire hive that way to see how bees get on with it. That's getting dangerously close to designing my own hive though, so I'd best go and sit in a dark room with a damp towel over my head until I feel better.

James

 

[pargyle]

It's half-tempting to bond suitably-formed bits of timber to the top and bottom edges of bits of PIR to support frames/make a bee space/provide a workable area for a hive tool and make an entire hive that way to see how bees get on with it. That's getting dangerously close to designing my own hive though, so I'd best go and sit in a dark room with a damp towel over my head until I feel better.

James

Nahhh ... Go for ir ... join the rest of us experimenting. Derek Mitchell has made loads of different shaped hives out of PIR ... his observations - they all work well. With the cost of Poly hives escalating like there's a world shortage of polystyrene - my Paynes 14 x 12's are now well over £100 - I've been seriously considering making a ply lined poly box to see how it stands up in use. I like my Paynes Polys in many respects but I reckon I could easily get a brood box and a roof out of a 2400 x 1200 sheet and have some left over. £30 ... + a bit of plywood plus some timber for a floor. Has to be worth a try.

 

[user 20297]

It's half-tempting to bond suitably-formed bits of timber to the top and bottom edges of bits of PIR to support frames/make a bee space/provide a workable area for a hive tool and make an entire hive that way to see how bees get on with it. That's getting dangerously close to designing my own hive though, so I'd best go and sit in a dark room with a damp towel over my head until I feel better.

James

I find that technique gets me through Christmas most years.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This year I have put my colonies onto UFE's with solid floors and the idea of too much condensation was worrying me. We did have a guest speaker a few years ago at the local BK association who was advocating reduced ventilation as it allowed the bees to keep the colony warmer easier and to manage airflow better, with any condensation

just thought I'd revisit this - this obsession on ventilation was started by Wedmore an 'engineer' who got totally carried away by his perception of his own self importance and filled in the gaps with a whole booklet full of made up 'science' entitled "on the ventilation of beehives" not withstanding that most of what he wrote was total gibberish - the rest made no real sense.
Unfortunately the 'master' beekeepers at BBKA central command decided this was gospel and still strive, with the assistance of a cluster of simpletons to perpetuate this false gospel

 

[user 20297]

It's half-tempting to bond suitably-formed bits of timber to the top and bottom edges of bits of PIR to support frames/make a bee space/provide a workable area for a hive tool and make an entire hive that way to see how bees get on with it. That's getting dangerously close to designing my own hive though, so I'd best go and sit in a dark room with a damp towel over my head until I feel better.

James

I've also thought about this and even have two boxes of a quasi-Warre hive in use. For me, the biggest challenge of a hive with multiple boxes is creating mating surfaces between the boxes that are even and are resilient against a hive tool.

 

[pargyle]

I've also thought about this and even have two boxes of a quasi-Warre hive in use. For me, the biggest challenge of a hive with multiple boxes is creating mating surfaces between the boxes that are even and are resilient against a hive tool.

I've used UPVC trims like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/White-Plas...d=1672007159&sprefix=UPVC+,aps,81&sr=8-8&th=1
Quite sucessfully - If you check with local UPVC suppliers they sell multipacks of the stuff a lot cheaper than this .. you can use it flat with it as 50mm wide or bend it down the middle for a 25mm right angle.

 

[JamezF]

I've been seriously considering making a ply lined poly box to see how it stands up in use. I like my Paynes Polys in many respects but I reckon I could easily get a brood box and a roof out of a 2400 x 1200 sheet and have some left over. £30 ... + a bit of plywood plus some timber for a floor. Has to be worth a try.

That sort of idea has been rattling around in my head for some time too. I also like poly hives, but they do lose out to wooden ones in some respects, particularly if something drops on them. And whilst I accept that it's probably not a huge deal, it does irritate me that you can look at the top edge of a poly box and see something that appears to have (say) 40mm thick walls, only to find that large parts of the sides are much thinner than that. I'd far rather see walls that were 40mm thick everywhere but for a single, simple handhold.

James

 

[pargyle]

That sort of idea has been rattling around in my head for some time too. I also like poly hives, but they do lose out to wooden ones in some respects, particularly if something drops on them. And whilst I accept that it's probably not a huge deal, it does irritate me that you can look at the top edge of a poly box and see something that appears to have (say) 40mm thick walls, only to find that large parts of the sides are much thinner than that. I'd far rather see walls that were 40mm thick everywhere but for a single, simple handhold.

James

I reckon you could do a double layer of 25mm PIR for the side walls which would enable you to create a landing for the frame lugs, UPVC strip for the frame lugs to sit on, the end walls single 25mm PIR and all ply lined Hand holds in the double skinned side walls would be formed from small plastic boxes recessed into the outer skin. Top bee space, the top edge of the box protected again with UPVC strip and a clear crownboard without the need for a rim. Bottom edge again protected with UPVC .. timber floor of course. Deep PIR roof with 50mm top.

Ideally compatible with poly supers ... It's not going to work with timber supers. With bamboo skewers to reinforce the joints and possibly UPVC right angles for additional strength - it would weigh next to nothing ....

I'm useless with Sketch up but it's in my mind ... it's finding time to make it !!!

 

[rossbyjove]

The current price of the deep Abelo roof is £31.60. The thickness of the dense poly is about 25mm (from a cursory examination....it is Christmas Day!). The U-value of the material isn't given, but from its density I assume that is it approximately the same as PIR insulation, so a roof made from 25mm of Kingspan or similar would give an equivalent R-value. I make them from 50mm PIR, but obviously, 25mm PIR is about half the price I also make crownboards from 25mm PIR; in combination with a 25mm thick roof this gives the sort of top insulation that many beekeepers recommend.

In December 2022 I'm seeing prices up to £20 for a sheet of 25mm PIR; from the big DIY sheds it will be much more. With careful planning it should be possible to cut four National roofs from one 1200 x 600mm sheet of (eg.) Kingspan. With 50mm sheets I cut four squares measuring a generous 560 x 560mm; with 25mm it would be 510 x 510mm. I cut my side pieces as deep as my remaining material will allow and 510mm (485mm) long. The whole lot is assembled without skewers or similar and bonded simply using PU sealant with masking tape as temporary holding (not really needed) and a few bricks on the top to keep it tight whilst the adhesive cures.; I guess many other types of cartridged adhesive would work. I use a spare bee-box as a jig in order to square things up and to ensure a sliding fit; I like them a bit tighter than standard roofs so for free movement others might want to add a few millimetres to my measurements. I find that with care, odd sized pieces can be bonded together in order to avoid wastage.

Once the adhesive has set I cover the cut edges with aluminium tape and paint the outside. In order to avoid creepy-crawlies nesting in the internal joints I apply sealant to those. I picked up another trick elsewhere on the forum and bonded-on some plastic angle at the point where my hive -strap cuts across...it saves damaging the corners. Best precision of assembly and fit depends on great care with measurements and use of the handsaw in particular. A bench-saw would make light work of this. Making everything a bit oversize reduces the chances of the roof not being a sliding fit.

This means that for a bit of very simple work, (PIR is easily cut with a handsaw), you can make a roof for around £8.00 all-in. In my experience this stuff is a lot tougher than many people think, especially once painted and I'm going into year four with my first prototypes which were based on @Erichalfbee 's examples.

If I get round to adding images to this they won't be very good and it's one of my scruffier ones with wrinkled paint, (again..it's Christmas Day), but some of mine are made from the offcuts and/or have additional layers added at a later date...with a good adhesive that's very easy to do.












View attachment 34769


View attachment 34770


View attachment 34768











View attachment 34765

 

[rossbyjove]

A few years ago I found 4 4X8 ft sheets of kingspan in a skip.
Never really had any use for them but I have put a piece above the crown crown board.
I also made a jacket for the brood box, seems to be working.
Only 1 hive at the moment so may start using Kingspan for more insulation when I 'inevitably' get more !

 

[Rob H]

The current price of the deep Abelo roof is £31.60. The thickness of the dense poly is about 25mm (from a cursory examination....it is Christmas Day!). The U-value of the material isn't given, but from its density I assume that is it approximately the same as PIR insulation, so a roof made from 25mm of Kingspan or similar would give an equivalent R-value. I make them from 50mm PIR, but obviously, 25mm PIR is about half the price I also make crownboards from 25mm PIR; in combination with a 25mm thick roof this gives the sort of top insulation that many beekeepers recommend.

In December 2022 I'm seeing prices up to £20 for a sheet of 25mm PIR; from the big DIY sheds it will be much more. With careful planning it should be possible to cut four National roofs from one 1200 x 600mm sheet of (eg.) Kingspan. With 50mm sheets I cut four squares measuring a generous 560 x 560mm; with 25mm it would be 510 x 510mm. I cut my side pieces as deep as my remaining material will allow and 510mm (485mm) long. The whole lot is assembled without skewers or similar and bonded simply using PU sealant with masking tape as temporary holding (not really needed) and a few bricks on the top to keep it tight whilst the adhesive cures.; I guess many other types of cartridged adhesive would work. I use a spare bee-box as a jig in order to square things up and to ensure a sliding fit; I like them a bit tighter than standard roofs so for free movement others might want to add a few millimetres to my measurements. I find that with care, odd sized pieces can be bonded together in order to avoid wastage.

Once the adhesive has set I cover the cut edges with aluminium tape and paint the outside. In order to avoid creepy-crawlies nesting in the internal joints I apply sealant to those. I picked up another trick elsewhere on the forum and bonded-on some plastic angle at the point where my hive -strap cuts across...it saves damaging the corners. Best precision of assembly and fit depends on great care with measurements and use of the handsaw in particular. A bench-saw would make light work of this. Making everything a bit oversize reduces the chances of the roof not being a sliding fit.

This means that for a bit of very simple work, (PIR is easily cut with a handsaw), you can make a roof for around £8.00 all-in. In my experience this stuff is a lot tougher than many people think, especially once painted and I'm going into year four with my first prototypes which were based on @Erichalfbee 's examples.

If I get round to adding images to this they won't be very good and it's one of my scruffier ones with wrinkled paint, (again..it's Christmas Day), but some of mine are made from the offcuts and/or have additional layers added at a later date...with a good adhesive that's very easy to do.












View attachment 34769


View attachment 34770


View attachment 34768











View attachment 34765

Do you use a particular type of paint which sticks to both the PIR and the tape ok? Thanks

 

[Swarm]

What if you add some polyurethane to masonry paint for a first coat?

 

[Garry R]

I gave ordinary soft Wickes insulation a coat of Ronseal woodstain and it seemed to give a harder outside without melting the insulation. I think that the golden rule with coating polystyrene is keep clear of solvents hence woodstain fits the bill

 

[Rob H]

I reckon you could do a double layer of 25mm PIR for the side walls which would enable you to create a landing for the frame lugs, UPVC strip for the frame lugs to sit on, the end walls single 25mm PIR and all ply lined Hand holds in the double skinned side walls would be formed from small plastic boxes recessed into the outer skin. Top bee space, the top edge of the box protected again with UPVC strip and a clear crownboard without the need for a rim. Bottom edge again protected with UPVC .. timber floor of course. Deep PIR roof with 50mm top.

Ideally compatible with poly supers ... It's not going to work with timber supers. With bamboo skewers to reinforce the joints and possibly UPVC right angles for additional strength - it would weigh next to nothing ....

I'm useless with Sketch up but it's in my mind ... it's finding time to make it !!!

Why would you need to ply line it? The bees can't get at the poly as its covered in the river foil. Thanks