Mesh Floor - In or Out?

[Finman]

the tray should normally be left out, apart from when you are doing a natural varroa drop count (in for a week occasionally so you can count how many naturally occuring varroa end up on there thus work out the size of the infestation), then when treating with Apiguard (because you want the hive to be as fume tight as possible and after Oxalic treatment to see how many mites were in the hive.

In Uk climate it is better to be closed. You need not calculate varroa all the time. It helps nothing.

One reason why guys hives are not very well developed is too cold brood boxes.

Every day I may read here that "I have a strong hive which has 8 frames. Shall I add a super".

This time of year hives should have 4-6 boxes and not 8 frames.

If I have one box hive in warm summer, my ventilation is 15 cm x 1 cm. That is enough. And solid floor.

 

[Finman]

Although I haven't seen any answer mentioning summer and how hot weather affects this. I assume it doesn't - bees can sort themselves out with either set up?

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I have nursed 45 years bees with upper holes and with main entrance.

25 years ago I notices with my first two mesh floors that they keep the colony too cold.

I have written for years on this forum about ventilation and it has no meaning here.
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[Finman]

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Guys! How many boxes you have now in your hives and how much honey?

How much mesh floor has helpped to get better honey yields or to get better build up?

"Floor is ment to be open" Like door is meant to keep open? What the nature law is that?

My mother shouted allways:"Shut the door, the heating has been paid".

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[summo]

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Guys! How many boxes you have now in your hives and how much honey?
How much mesh floor has helpped to get better honey yields or to get better build up?

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who knows, you would need to test with and without etc. perhaps over a dozen hives, over say 5 years.. to establish any results worth referencing? Climate probably plays a massive part in it.

I have mesh floors on all my hives, probably a similar climate to yourself, despite splitting hives, I'm adding more boxes and need to make more frames today or tomorrow, plus there'll still be supplies left for them for winter.

You can apply the logical approach that they probably would not set up home in a tree if it had a gapping hole in the bottom of it, but if what ever folk do, works, then that's all that matters.

As for your massive hives, just brimming over with honey, perhaps your bees and location is the critical factor, not a mesh floor, small entrance?

 

[Finman]

As for your massive hives, just brimming over with honey, perhaps your bees and location is the critical factor, not a mesh floor, small entrance?

You are right. My opinion is that UK has too big hive dencity and that is why the yield is what it is.

But hive build up is its own question. Hives must be big before yield start to come in.

Like I have written, one box colony takes 6-8 weeks time to develope to a productiver hive.

It does not happen so that now I put an excluder and bees start the honey production next day.
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[user 6228]

.... it also prevents damps problems during the winter too, when the bees won't actively ventilate the hive.

if reduced the heat loss enough they would keep the hive clean and drink the condensation, and go on cleansing flights more days of the year...

 

[pargyle]

You are right. My opinion is that UK has too big hive dencity and that is why the yield is what it is.

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The changes in agriculture and back gardens have not leant themselves to beekeeping in the UK. Over the last 50 years more and more land has come under the concrete bulldozer and the fad for all round greenery rather than flowering plants have left urban gardens and council open spaces devoid of a lot of bee fodder.

Our farms have bigger fields, fewer hedgerows and less crop variety than at any time in history.

Yes Finman, you could be right that our hive density is too great - but the real problem is what we have done to the country and countryside.

We need to educate councils, farmers and householders about the need to create habitat for all pollinators and insects - they are generally at the lowest end of the food chain and without the habitat we are in danger of losing a lot more than our honey production.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

We need to educate councils, farmers and householders about the need to create habitat for all pollinators and insects - they are generally at the lowest end of the food chain and without the habitat we are in danger of losing a lot more than our honey production.

Watch the Welsh news programmes on July 23rd for the launch of the Welsh government Pollinator project at the Royal Welsh Show (you may even get a glimpse of me there!) and just to keep Derek M happy - it's being spearheaded by the Woodlands trust whose new motto for the scheme is 'Isn’t it funny how bees like trees?'

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Watch the Welsh news programmes on July 23rd for the launch of the Welsh government Pollinator project at the Royal Welsh Show (you may even get a glimpse of me there!) and just to keep Derek M happy - it's being spearheaded by the Woodlands trust whose new motto for the scheme is 'Isn’t it funny how bees like trees?'

Sitting in a kingspan box feeling warm all over?

 

[summo]

if reduced the heat loss enough they would keep the hive clean and drink the condensation, and go on cleansing flights more days of the year...

I can only relate it to here, where my bees will be inside for pretty much 4,5,6mths and get no flights out. So I suspect condensation and a messy floor could be greater problem here. They have enough work to do in spring anyway, clearing out all the dead bees in a big pile in front of the hive, quite worrying the first time I saw this!

 

[user 6228]

jkjdfdfd

 

[user 6228]

I can only relate it to here, where my bees will be inside for pretty much 4,5,6mths and get no flights out. So I suspect condensation and a messy floor could be greater problem here. They have enough work to do in spring anyway, clearing out all the dead bees in a big pile in front of the hive, quite worrying the first time I saw this!

In those 4 to 6 months how many days at noon on a bright day is it above 0C air temperature?
And in how many days of the year is it below -25C

 

[user 6228]

Sitting in a kingspan box feeling warm all over?

only if there isnt a real tree...

 

[summo]

In those 4 to 6 months how many days at noon on a bright day is it above 0C air temperature?
And in how many days of the year is it below -25C

Normally for us, at about 300m above sea level, winter will kick in Nov, sometimes early, sometimes late, meaning that it will be permanently below zero for the next 4-5 mths, you might occasionally get a day(perhaps only 2 or 3 all winter) where it reaches zero, but it's not a given. So potentially there is a day or two when they could escape, but it's not the norm for temps to get that warm consistently mid winter.

Below -25, pretty unusual for a standard air temp. But in the frost hollows, in total shade, probably quite frequent. Normal temp is day or night between -5 and -15c, the daily change is minimal, as the sun is so weak it has little impact until late Feb when it gains a bit of oomph! It's the direction of the airstreams that dictate if it will be a pleasant -5 or a biting -20.

They are pretty hardy bees, they will make the odd escape if the sun is out, not too windy, even if the temp is in single figures above zero. I clear the snow off the entrances of the hives so if they wish to escape they can, should the temp rise and to add a bit of air flow if required, but the entrances are only about 10 or 15cm long at most, 1cm high, with mouse guards in winter, so it's hardly a gale blowing through.

 

[user 6228]

Normally for us, at about 300m above sea level, winter will kick in Nov, sometimes early, sometimes late, meaning that it will be permanently below zero for the next 4-5 mths, you might occasionally get a day(perhaps only 2 or 3 all winter) where it reaches zero, but it's not a given. So potentially there is a day or two when they could escape, but it's not the norm for temps to get that warm consistently mid winter.

Below -25, pretty unusual for a standard air temp. But in the frost hollows, in total shade, probably quite frequent. Normal temp is day or night between -5 and -15c, the daily change is minimal, as the sun is so weak it has little impact until late Feb when it gains a bit of oomph! It's the direction of the airstreams that dictate if it will be a pleasant -5 or a biting -20.

They are pretty hardy bees, they will make the odd escape if the sun is out, not too windy, even if the temp is in single figures above zero. I clear the snow off the entrances of the hives so if they wish to escape they can, should the temp rise and to add a bit of air flow if required, but the entrances are only about 10 or 15cm long at most, 1cm high, with mouse guards in winter, so it's hardly a gale blowing through.

so even where you live winter clustering is optional for bees in a good tree.

 

[andy-glide]

Ok so the OMF has been put to bed but little has been said in this thread re the need to keep open or close the crown board.

Currently mine are closed off by the english feeder which has remained on since the spring. (no feed given snce then).

Assume the National hive is realy designed to be to top vented so perhapse I should consider providing additional top ventilation this week given the high temperatures.

 

[drstitson]

"Assume the National hive is realy designed to be to top vented so perhapse I should consider providing additional top ventilation this week given the high temperatures."

it may have been when on solid floors BUT no!!!!! as per numerous threads on here a crownboard (wood or poly) is solid. the top of the hive chamber.
bees should have no access to roof space.

boards with holes are clearer or feeder boards. used when needed only.

if you can only afford one then use something to keep closed when not needed.

 

[drstitson]

UK temps are nothing like those seen on mainland continental europe - where bees cope happily with 35-40C temps for upto 3 months of the summer.

if you feel the need to do anything keep your winter insulation on top of the CB all year to keep cool in summer.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Assume the National hive is realy designed to be to top vented so perhapse I should consider providing additional top ventilation this week given the high temperatures.

I'm not sure it was. I'm fairly sure the Barnet Beekeepers 1936 videos show quilts (thick insulation) above the crown board, even in the summer, and even though there's a 'feeder hole' in the crown board. http://www.youtube.com/user/BarnetBeekeepers?feature=watch

edit:
This one, at about 5 minutes in, there's what looks like a cushion or a pillow above the crown board/hole. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=902k2HzCO4E[/ame]

 

[summo]

here leaving insulation on the top, or even all sides in summer is normal. As it is thought to help keep them cooler when it's really hot. Certainly never any ventilation from above. It might not cause any harm though, but it probably doesn't benefit them either and creates extra work or management.