Mann Lake side bars?

[Finman]

. This is one case where Finman should be flag waving about doing the job right. Get hives designed with correct bee space and frames made to respect bee space at all points and beekeeping becomes much easier and more enjoyable.

ALWAYS be filled with burr comb! This is why my new hives are carefully designed with 5/8 inch deep rebates, 11 5/8 inch deep boxes, and 11 1/4 inch deep frames.

I have missed something during my 54 beekeeping years. With one world: Joy!

But when hives fill gaps with burr, it means that the box is full of capped honey.
I enjoy the honey, but burr does not harm my life either.

Truth is that carefully designed caps are not such after a while. Wooden bars twist some, bees gather propolis, wax here and there. Bees will be crushed in tight gaps. 50 y old gaps do better than modern.

I mind only abouf honey. 150 kg from hive is good. And that depends on selecting pastures.
.

 

[Bee Bumble]

Err, okay. I thought it was such a simple question to begin with, but it is beekeeping after all!

Is it likely that I could use Mann Lake frames in Paynes (Swienty) Langstroths along with a mix of Maisemore and Thornes Dadant shallow frames in the upper box, or will they compromise beespace by sitting too high on the frame rests? Or have I got to stick with Maisemore or Thornes?

These are the brood box dimensions from Swienty, but I don't think it says enough to work it out.
Height: 240 mm
Weight: 1,6 kg
Ins. Length: 463 mm
Ins. Width: 374 mm
Top bar: 487 mm
Outs. Length: 540 mm
Outs. Width: 450 mm

I have Swienty Langstroth mediums (Dadant shallows) and use Swienty or Mann Lake frames in them. They sit the same height in the box (despite the tapered lugs) and leave a similar amount of space in the box at the end when full. Mann Lake frames have stronger thicker top and bottom bars.

I also have some Thornes and Maisemores frames but none to hand to compare. If I remember correctly, they have thinner, weaker lugs and sit lower in the box. Because of this the bee space is different so I do not mix M & Ts with S & MLs on the same hive. I keep all the M & Ts for use at one apiary. I plan to dispose of them and switch to Swienty JLS deeps & MLs shallows.
ML do not make JLS deeps (I do not know why - all they would need to do is make the side bars - the top and bottom bars are the same). If they made JLS deeps I would buy them.

If you remove the frame rests in your Swienty boxes I think they all sit at the same height, but will check when I can find some M & Ts frames to compare with S & MLs and I will let you know.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I will let you know.

That would be really helpful, thank you very much.

 

[Bee Bumble]

Managed to dig out an empty Swienty Langstroth medium (Dadant shallow) box of each type of frame I have in the bee shed. After some measuring without the benefit of a depth gauge my results were as follows:
(all measurements approximately accurate to 1mm ish)

Thornes Dadant Manley frames:
9 in a box leaves a 4mm gap at the side
Beespace: 7mm below the top of the box, flush with the bottom of the box.

Thornes Dadant Hoffman frames:
9 in a box leaves a 31 mm gap at the side (10 will not fit in).
Beespace: 7 mm below top of the box, flush with the bottom of the box.

Mann Lake Langstroth 'super' frames:
10 in a box leaves a 21 mm gap at the side.
Beespace: 4 mm at top and 2 mm bottom of the box.

Swienty langstroth 3/4 frames:

10 in a box leaves a 19 mm gap at the side of the box.
Beespace: 3.5 mm at the top and 3.5 mm at the bottom of the box.

If the frame rests are removed from the Swienty box, the Mann Lake frames sit 3.5 mm below the bottom of the box.

Hope this helps.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Wow! Thanks for going to so much trouble.

Doesn't look as if the frames are cross-compatible, which is a pity.