Leaving the bees a super of honey for the winter

[BeeJuice]

I took a massive crop of honey in early August - I harvested earlier than normal as I had 5 supers on each hive and the bees were running out of room and I had no more supers to give them.

Having extracted the honey I gave each hive a super to give them a little space. The supers are now filled and I can see the bees are doing well on the local Himalayan Balsam. I already have plenty of honey so am inclined to leave the supers to the bees for the winter. The question I have is whether I should remove the Queen excluder. My thinking is that without the QE the bees will be able to huddle at the top of the hive when it gets cold. The downside is that I'll have a super full of brood in the spring. So the better option (for me) would be to leave the QE between the BB and the super. Will the bees be OK with this? Or should the queen be allowed free movement?

Many thanks,

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the better option (for me) would be to leave the QE between the BB and the super. Will the bees be OK with this?

definitely not - especially in your location, come the spring you will have a hive full of dead bees starved within inches of food as they will not abandon the queen

 

[Ian123]

No never leave the qx in over winter.!!!You could reverse the boxes in the hope the brood will be in the top box for winter/spring. Personally I’d take the honey this whole nadiring can cause other issues just opening up the front door to pests. If you have plenty of honey sell some to friends and family..store some you’ll have crap years….pay back your investment or donate to charity whatever floats your boat

 

[madasafish]

I nadir one super and have done so for the past 7 years with no issues. I do narrow entrances down on standard floors,do nothing on Under Floor entrances.

 

[BeeJuice]

That's interesting.. thank you for the replies. I usually go into the winter with the bees on a double brood box (nationals) Come the spring, I remove the lower BB which is generally empty of stores and brood, and add it back when the colony expands or if I need to split the hive in swarm prevention.
So I could sandwich the supers between the BBs over the winter and hope the queen concentrates her laying in the upper BB in the spring. That might be an idea. Thanks for the thoughts

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

if you are on a double brood, you definitely don't want a super of honey as well

 

[BeeJuice]

Right ho! I'll take your advice. Thank you

 

[ericbeaumont]

go into the winter with the bees on a double brood box (nationals)

Why leave £300 of honey when they won't need it? Take the super and extract it!

That might be an idea

Yes, but an unneccesarily complicated one, giving you more work. In any case, bees will have other ideas.

 

[BeeJuice]

Fair enough - That solves the problem of what to do on Bank Holiday Monday!

 

[Hachi]

Have a look at Bob Binnies' video on feeding bees part one. He correctly points out bees like nectar aka sucrose, not honey.

 

[Lolly Bee]

OK, so everyone has a different way of doing stuff. But I'm year 1 here. Leave the super? Put it under the BB as some seem to do (robbing issue?) or leave it on top with the QE removed? I can't extract now as treated for Varroa. As for your 5 supers BeeJuice - sell it, sell it! Your electricity bill this winter will be grateful!

 

[Delgirl]

Have a look at Bob Binnies' video on feeding bees part one. He correctly points out bees like nectar aka sucrose, not honey.

Been watching him too. What a great source of knowledge he is.

Have a look at Bob Binnies' video on feeding bees part one. He correctly points out bees like nectar aka sucrose, not honey.

 

[Hachi]

OK, so everyone has a different way of doing stuff. But I'm year 1 here. Leave the super? Put it under the BB as some seem to do (robbing issue?) or leave it on top with the QE removed? I can't extract now as treated for Varroa. As for your 5 supers BeeJuice - sell it, sell it! Your electricity bill this winter will be grateful!

You're right Lolly everyone has a different way and the trick here [especially on this forum] is to work out who is worth listening to .

You don't say what you used in your varroa treatment to contaminate your honey but as I'm not a disciple of nadir'ing I would do as you describe and remove the QE and leave it above the BB. Others will be along to share their opinions no doubt. Welcome to the forum and if you ever need any kevlar, let me know

 

[polymath]

OK, so everyone has a different way of doing stuff. But I'm year 1 here. Leave the super? Put it under the BB as some seem to do (robbing issue?) or leave it on top with the QE removed? I can't extract now as treated for Varroa. As for your 5 supers BeeJuice - sell it, sell it! Your electricity bill this winter will be grateful!

Simple Bees it is considered need 40lb of stores to go through winter. Go through your brood box/boxes count up roughly how much stores you have. One full frame both sides of national is 5lb. So if you have close to 40lb of stores then no need for a super just feed a bit - unless you want to do a it natural and no feeding. That is your first question do the bees need the super of honey.

If the answer is yes then you have two choices as you right say.

This time of year i would under super, i.e. under brood box, they will take stores up into brood box.
Later if still not enough stores in brood box then leave on top but recognise that bees may well be in the super next march with brood so that means you now have a super with brood to deal with.

 

[Belgianbeekeeper]

I took a massive crop of honey in early August - I harvested earlier than normal as I had 5 supers on each hive and the bees were running out of room and I had no more supers to give them.

Having extracted the honey I gave each hive a super to give them a little space. The supers are now filled and I can see the bees are doing well on the local Himalayan Balsam. I already have plenty of honey so am inclined to leave the supers to the bees for the winter. The question I have is whether I should remove the Queen excluder. My thinking is that without the QE the bees will be able to huddle at the top of the hive when it gets cold. The downside is that I'll have a super full of brood in the spring. So the better option (for me) would be to leave the QE between the BB and the super. Will the bees be OK with this? Or should the queen be allowed free movement?

Many thanks,

We leave the super on top,same prob here,way too much honey,1300 kg swung,so now 9 hives out of 19 are with a filled super on top,ofcourse the q restrictor removed;What part she will use to lay eggs is not important for us,in spring as harvest preparation,the hives getting put on the renson system so totaly re-organised anyway;The renson chamber gets a mix of empty but builded out frame,empty frame,drone frame,pollen rich frame,closed brood and leftover winter food goes to lvl 1,lvl2 holds the renson chamber,empty honey super on top,too much leftover winterfood gets taken out ,swung and used as basis for our sugardough to winter in later on.To fully understand this you need to read in on the renson system,real easy once you get the hang of it,but not that easy to explain in a short message.Anyway,even without the renson system no one can stop you from re organising your hive in spring and hang the frames you want in the desired position.

 

[Dods bisyssla]

Been watching him too. What a great source of knowledge he is.

As you noticed; ask 10 beekeepers and you get 11 different opinions. Problem is that how to know which opinion is more than an anecdotical based opinion? As one wrote; Bees like nectar aka saccarose?? Bees collect nectar to make honey in order to store it. When they eat it they dilute it to about 50 %. Bees do not eat Saccarose - they can only eat fructos and glucose and need to invert saccarose before they eat it. As for you question - bees need to be able to go into a tight cluster and for that they need to have their food above the head and that is what they do if they have the opportunity to do so. So, one (or two, does not matter for the bees) brood boxes with empty combs and a full super above without queen excluder is what they prefer. Then honey vs sugar. Well what did the bees develope during the 50 millions (or more) year they have existed? If sugar really would be better then how come the flowers and bees didn't co-develop sugar instead of the much more complicated nectar? Honey left to the bees is not a lost income - it is an investment in next years colony and next year crop. To give bees sugar in order to save money is like adding 50% water in your diesel or gas tank to save money. Very shortsighted and likewise contra-productive.

 

[Erichalfbee]

bees need to be able to go into a tight cluster and for that they need to have their food above the head and that is what they do if they have the opportunity to do so. So, one (or two, does not matter for the bees) brood boxes with empty combs and a full super above

I disagree.
Bees need food round them in the brood box and they don’t cluster tightly unless it’s really cold. The bees in my poly hives are active most of the winter.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

been a long time since I heard so much rubbish packed into one post

 

[Dods bisyssla]

I disagree.
Bees need food round them in the brood box and they don’t cluster tightly unless it’s really cold. The bees in my poly hives are active most of the winter.

Well, clearly you can disagree but that will not change the facts - read some studies and you will see for yourself. When it gets cold they need to cluster tightly and if there are no empty cells it means they will have to warm up the food as well which means higher food consumption leading to more water in the rectum and dysentery as sure as a X mas postcard. Obviously, if one live where temperature is high during the winter (above 8 degree C) then clearly they do not need to cluster and they can fly out and defecate when needed. Me, I'm located in Sweden where we have -8 C at the moment and very little activity. They do make brood occasionally in the winter in order to get rid of excess water, here is a reference to a thorough study by Randy Oliver where most of these topics are covered with plenty of references to read (even how the cluster works): The Nosema Problem: Part 7b - The Causes of Dysentery in Honey Bees: Part 2 - Scientific Beekeeping. It was part of a series of 7 articles that was published in ABJ in 2019-20.

 

[Dods bisyssla]

Well, clearly you can disagree but that will not change the facts - read some studies and you will see for yourself. When it gets cold they need to cluster tightly and if there are no empty cells it means they will have to warm up the food as well which means higher food consumption leading to more water in the rectum and dysentery as sure as a X mas postcard. Obviously, if one live where temperature is high during the winter (above 8 degree C) then clearly they do not need to cluster and they can fly out and defecate when needed. Me, I'm located in Sweden where we have -8 C at the moment and very little activity. They do make brood occasionally in the winter in order to get rid of excess water, here is a reference to a thorough study by Randy Oliver where most of these topics are covered with plenty of references to read (even how the cluster works): The Nosema Problem: Part 7b - The Causes of Dysentery in Honey Bees: Part 2 - Scientific Beekeeping. It was part of a series of 7 articles that was published in ABJ in 2019-20.

ps we use same box size for the brood and our supers in order to make life easier. That way it does not matter if the bees have brood in the food store in march - that box will then be the new BB and we simply use another box as the new super. Other may do differently and then there might be other issues to deal with.