Laying workers?

[Erichalfbee]

Is it possible that beyond a certain distance, dumped laying workers can’t find their way back to their own hive because they have been reared from the start as laying workers, so have never done foraging duties therefore don’t know the landmarks beyond the immediate surrounding of the hive?

But they do go out for a poo and know where they live so that perception fails.

 

[BeeBird]

But they do go out for a poo and know where they live so that perception fails.

But how far do they go for a poo?

 

[Erichalfbee]

But how far do they go for a poo?

Well if you watch orientation flights you’ll see that bees do actually fly out in ever increasing distances to mark where they live. Or do they just fly out blind, poo and return.

 

[BeeBird]

Well if you watch orientation flights you’ll see that bees do actually fly out in ever increasing distances to mark where they live. Or do they just fly out blind, poo and return.

Maybe!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But how far do they go for a poo?

but does it matter? the hive is still in the same place, they memorise it's position in relation to the sun (they can factor in the sun's movement to the imprint), but you seem determined to believe poor advice which has no basis in fact that has been regurgitated for generations. Why don't you just go the whole hog and maintain (like some have stated) that laying workers also lose the ability to fly?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

but does it matter anyway, unlike what I'm guessing you have read (I really would like to know where) the purpose of shaking out a colony of laying workers is not so they can just die out in the open, or so that they cannot find their way back as, the first thing you do is remove all trace of their hive so that they just beg a new home in other colonies. so knowing or not knowing the way back home is imatesticle.

 

[BeeBird]

but does it matter? the hive is still in the same place, they memorise it's position in relation to the sun (they can factor in the sun's movement to the imprint), but you seem determined to believe poor advice which has no basis in fact that has been regurgitated for generations. Why don't you just go the whole hog and maintain (like some have stated) that laying workers also lose the ability to fly?

I’m not determined to believe poor advice, far from it. I am searching for credible advice, so are you suggesting that all the beekeeping literature and publications are offering poor advice which has no accuracy?
I must say I’m a bit offended that you seem to think I am gullible and believe anything I read, which is not the case. In my professional life I always used critical appraisal to sort out the wheat from the chaff. However, I am a novice beekeeper with only 3 years experience, so am trying to find the best way to look after my colonies. Seem’s to be a minefield out there

 

[Sutty]

I’m not determined to believe poor advice, far from it. I am searching for credible advice, so are you suggesting that all the beekeeping literature and publications are offering poor advice which has no accuracy?
I must say I’m a bit offended that you seem to think I am gullible and believe anything I read, which is not the case. In my professional life I always used critical appraisal to sort out the wheat from the chaff. However, I am a novice beekeeper with only 3 years experience, so am trying to find the best way to look after my colonies. Seem’s to be a minefield out there

Use your critical appraisal skills, cross check with multiple sources, check out the references and stay sceptical, get multiple opinions.
That way you won't go far wrong,

 

[JamezF]

Laying workers are not always in the hive. Sometimes one out million in queen right colony. But it they are, policing bees destroy the eggs in 24 hours.

According to a paper published in Nature in 2016 about the mechanism by which ovary activity in workers is prevented, around 5% of workers in a queenright colony are likely not to be fully inhibited from laying. That's an awful lot more than one in a million, clearly.

James

 

[BeeBird]

Use your critical appraisal skills, cross check with multiple sources, check out the references and stay sceptical, get multiple opinions.
That way you won't go far wrong,

Thank you. I’m doing my best not to fall into any potholes and realise I need to learn from theory and practice. No doubt I will continue to make mistakes, but will hopefully learn from them

 

[jarmo henttu]

According to a paper published in Nature in 2016 about the mechanism by which ovary activity in workers is prevented, around 5% of workers in a queenright colony are likely not to be fully inhibited from laying. That's an awful lot more than one in a million, clearly.

James

Ok, that is new to me. The honey bee policing was foud 20 years ago when I read about worker laying phenomenom.

 

[Newbeeneil]

So, I have a laying worker colony. What’s the best way to deal with it?
1, unite over newspaper with a strong nuc.
Or 2, remove the colony shake out the bees and put the nuc in its place?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maybe!

Try it.
Shake a laying colony out but leave the hive in place. Look again in a few days to see if you still have laying workers.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Seriously though, what beekeeping publications are out there that have any credibility or are they just full of unproven and subjective waffle?

Many of the published beekeeping books seem to be collections of regurgitated ideas from other beekeeping books. If you're lucky they regurgitate sensible ideas but if you're unlucky they regurgitate the fantasies too. Beekeeping magazines are no better. By all means read but apply critical thinking skills. If something sounds silly it probably is. I cut my beekeeping teeth so to speak on Dave Cushman's original website and Ted Hoopers book guide to bees and honey. Plus sifted through posts in the forum and due to starting my interest in springtime I took my association practical training before the theory. Having a good leader who explained as he demonstrated meant the out of sequence bit didn't make any difference, plus he was a modern thinker and didn't trot out the hackneyed old lines.

 

[beeker]

. so knowing or not knowing the way back home is imatesticle.

Sorry, bought out my inner child

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sorry, bought out my inner child

Isn’t autocorrect a trained AI ? Makes you wonder

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sorry, bought out my inner child

sorry, it's a maritime term

 

[Vanterrier]

Like "testiculating" = waving arms around whilst talking bollocks...
K

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

are you suggesting that all the beekeeping literature and publications are offering poor advice which has no accuracy?

No, but many do unfortunately, as others have said, people wanting to make a name for themselves just copy and paste from previous writing, or just regurgitate the same accepted knowledge, generation on generation. There are a few 'danger signs' to help you on the way, anything with BBKA or 'master' beekeeper should warn you to sit down with a large bowl of Saxa's finest Sodium Chloride.

Try it.
Shake a laying colony out but leave the hive in place. Look again in a few days to see if you still have laying workers.

remember when I was apiary manager at an association apiary, we had a failed queen mating after someone decided to 'split' a colony with QCs resulting in a hive of laying workers, I gave instructions on shaking out the colony, but the 'expert' in charge of that hive promptly ignored me, took the hive (leaving the stand in situ) and scrambled through the undergrowth below the apiary to shake out about two or three hundred yards away.
The colony was back, clustered on the stand wondering where the hive had gone before the shakeout party got back to the apiary!!

 

[Antipodes]

So, I have a laying worker colony. What’s the best way to deal with it?
1, unite over newspaper with a strong nuc.
Or 2, remove the colony shake out the bees and put the nuc in its place?

How big is it?