Late Season Splits?

[YHB]

Assuming I am successful at raising queens, what’s the latest you would split a colony and have a chance of getting it through the winter?

I am based in South Yorkshire

I ask as I plan to try double brood but want to over winter on brood and a half.

I was wondering if I could split the hive in August after I had removed any supers I had on there.

Take the top box and split into two Nucs and give them a queen. Again assuming i have been successful in queen rearing and mating.

 

[madasafish]

Splitting a hive in August here is suicidal.
Death by wasps.

 

[YHB]

ok cheers, not good then.

so its possible but comes with likely failure?

whats the latest you should split a colony?

 

[Antipodes]

From the link posted on another thread by Newbeeneil. It seems late July.. Roger states reasons why he thinks early August is not as good.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/rogerpattersonmethod.pdf

 

[YHB]

thanks for this, i guess from this if i have two 5 frames Nucs that i feed with a view to providing them with 6 over 6 frames i may be able to increase the strength to overwinter.


i assume if i give them pollen paitties i will increase their chance of success

 

[Swarm]

It will depend on many factors but as an example, I had a virgin mated late August last year, she was laying a good pattern in September. I checked on them last week and they are looking great.

 

[YHB]

Thanks, generally then it seems doable.

I plan to graft in May and have around 10 - 20 queens in mating hives. Assuming I get it right.

It was mentioned that splitting the whole hive might be better. Take all 11 frames and split with a new queen. My only concern would be the reduction of bees. As all the foraging bees will fly home. Not sure if I should be too worried in August. Shouldn’t it be hot enough at night to keep the brood warm?

 

[Swarm]

I would split a double brood but I would not split a colony in a single box. My queens tend to go through a brood break after the main flow so a reduction anyway, usually August time. The nuc I mentioned above was a last attempt at saving them after a failed mating, I prefer to be concentrating on treatments at this time but it seems she has done well. Six over six poly nuc set up is a great winter format.

 

[ericbeaumont]

My only concern would be the reduction of bees. As all the foraging bees will fly home.

Remove to one side the colony to be split.
Place nucs in a circle around the site of the colony, entrances facing inward.
Split the colony; nuc the resident Q and take her away; remove the hive from the original area.
Flying bees will orientate to the nucs; feed; add Qs.
If any of the nucs are weaker in bees after a few days, swap places with stronger boxes.

As MAF said: wasps make late-season splits high-risk.

Shouldn’t it be hot enough at night to keep the brood warm?

Depends where you are in the country and depends on the season.

 

[beeno]

From the link posted on another thread by Newbeeneil. It seems late July.. Roger states reasons why he thinks early August is not as good.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/rogerpattersonmethod.pdf

A little bit of news for an overseas forum member, Roger is famous in the UK for having queen problems. He holds talks on it. His queens have a propensity to emerge with deformed wings. I think this might be due to the fact that he believes sealed brood generates enough heat to keep the brood nest at 37°C. He makes up five framed nucs, with one frame of sealed brood and adhering bees and one of stores the remainder drawn comb. The wings of a bee including the queen's are the last thing to develop and if the brood nest falls below optimum temperature levels, due to lack of nurse bees, they do not develop properly. Most beeks that are into queen rearing in the UK finish in July before wasps become a problem. August is a period when we treat colonies and think about uniting weak colonies before winter. Late supersedure in August is common, but mating in late Aug. is uncertain and wasps take advantage of weak nucs in particular.

 

[Nige.Coll]

I did my last queen rearing second week of August last year, the nucs are alive still. 70% mated fine.
You just have to know what your doing.
A couple of breeder queens arrived the last week in August the other year, put them into made up nucs with mainly nurse bees and they are still alive today.

 

[Ian123]

Lots of beekeepers make splits in august September and I’ve done it in October as I’m sure many others have. Sunny south though, can wasps be an issue yes on occasion, but strong splits tiny entrances. Wasps tend to look for a victim. Don’t provide the victim/opportunity and half the issues are gone. For me august is the best time of year for splits q-rearing. As to quoting roger he has a few funny ideas and I would suggest compared to many he’s not the most experienced on this subject....ian

 

[mbc]

Lots of beekeepers make splits in august September and I’ve done it in October as I’m sure many others have. Sunny south though, can wasps be an issue yes on occasion, but strong splits tiny entrances. Wasps tend to look for a victim. Don’t provide the victim/opportunity and half the issues are gone. For me august is the best time of year for splits q-rearing. As to quoting roger he has a few funny ideas and I would suggest compared to many he’s has not the most experienced on this subject....ian

I carry on making up nucs into October, more as a function of winding up the queen rearing than any serious intention to make increase at this time. The law of diminishing returns applies the later you leave it, but it can be done.

 

[jeff33]

I will go for small/weak split from June til late July (usually 3 frames nucs) but the later it goes in the season (up to mid-September) the stronger I make them , usually 5-6 frames nucs with 3 strong frames of brood and bees.

 

[Somerford]

Assuming I am successful at raising queens, what’s the latest you would split a colony and have a chance of getting it through the winter?

I am based in South Yorkshire

I ask as I plan to try double brood but want to over winter on brood and a half.

I was wondering if I could split the hive in August after I had removed any supers I had on there.

Take the top box and split into two Nucs and give them a queen. Again assuming i have been successful in queen rearing and mating.

Ignore the nay sayers.

expand your colonies early on to double broods. Split those that look like swarming and then combine again if you don’t want numbers

those that are slower to expand into double broods keep a watch on, capitalise on honey production then split 3 frame nucs out of the whole hive or just one brood chamber. Feed all splits and old colony. Forget the half - just pack the brood chamber

the splits can be done in September as long as you have mated queens to pop in. Close up entrances you may loose 5% to wasps maybe none. Feed well. You may find they need expanding into a double brood chamber Nuc before the autumn is over.
Overwinter and earmark to put into full size hives early March and repeat process or expand , take an early Nuc sell on and let them raise an early queen.

go for it

 

[Antipodes]

I'm trying to get a few queens mated now here (equivalent of your August). I'm not expecting too much joy, mainly because of the lack of drones around now. Still 26 forecast today, but the sun has been getting lower since before Christmas of course.

 

[The Poot]

I'm trying to get a few queens mated now here (equivalent of your August). I'm not expecting too much joy, mainly because of the lack of drones around now. Still 26 forecast today, but the sun has been getting lower since before Christmas of course.

Your loss is our gain