Split trying to supercede queen?

[noumenon]

I have a split that I made in early July. The queen was slow to start laying and I've only seen a small number of brood. I've not actually seen the queen, but the small numbers of eggs and brood indicate she's there somewhere. Last week the bees were much more defensive and this week I have queen cells pulled out from the centre of a number of frames.

Am I right in thinking they are superceding a badly mated or weak queen? If so, should I just leave them to it, or is it too late in the year to expect a successful mating of a new virgin? If too late, the colony it was split from isn't that strong, so should I just knock down the cells, have a really good look and remove any queen and do a newspaper combination?

 

[ericbeaumont]

too late

Probably.
Is this colony in a nuc or BB?

queen cells pulled out from the centre of a number of frames

Do you mean QCs made & sealed, or made & then removed by bees?

Photos would help.

 

[hemo]

Unite them for both to have chance of making it as one come spring, other wise two weak colonies liely may end up and to dead outs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

With queen cells pulled on 'a number' of frames I would guess the queen has died, is there still eggs and brood?
Too late really for a hope of a queen mating now - most of my colonies have already kicked out their drones.

 

[noumenon]

This is the frame from the middle of the brood with most of the bees shaken off.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

laying workers - colony is doomed

 

[noumenon]

I wondered that due to the drone cells. If I combine them with a stronger colony, is there a risk of the laying workers continuing to lay, or will the presence of a queen stop them? Anything else to consider? Thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

presence of a queen will supress their laying instinct.
How many bees left in that hive? May be easier to just shake them out

 

[ericbeaumont]

combine them with a stronger colony

Waste of time.

shake them out

Yes, shake out in front of the receiving hive on a flying day, and afterwards give the box of combs.

 

[noumenon]

The shaking out method is not something I'd come across before.

So just to ensure I understand it correctly - I just empty the hive by shaking the bees off in front of the stronger colony?

Will the bees in the stronger colony let them in? Seems too easy!

There about 4 frames covered in the queenless split and 5 in the stronger colony it was split from.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So just to ensure I understand it correctly - I just empty the hive by shaking the bees off in front of the stronger colony?

yes

Will the bees in the stronger colony let them in?

yes

 

[noumenon]

Fab. Many thanks.

 

[ericbeaumont]

shaking the bees off in front

Give them an upgrade: put a board on a slope up to the hive entrance and shake the bees onto the bottom of it.

 

[noumenon]

I'm curious as well about the Queen cells. As they likely came from unfertilised eggs, what will hatch? Just a big well fed drone?

 

[JamezF]

I'm curious as well about the Queen cells. As they likely came from unfertilised eggs, what will hatch? Just a big well fed drone?

I think they'll more than likely tear the cells down before the bee emerges, but if one does emerge then my recollection is that it could well be under-developed when compared with a normal drone.

James