Langstroth or National?

[Catford1]

I hope to get a nuc next spring.

Any views on the relative merits of Langstoths vs Nationals?

 

[VEG]

You will find people for and against both for their own reasons.

 

[hedgerow pete]

where do you want to start

size of box, lang is larger but national is more common in the uk but no one uses them abroad realy
how about cell size of a 12 by 14 say to a lang and we are equal, the list is endless,

but if i can be very rude try this answer.
most UK nucs are served up on a national frame it being the most common in the uk, so if your supplier for next year and i would by now have started to either pre pay or at least order your nuc to beat the que, if he can supply in either of the frames or you have the ability to order without frames ie easy bee where they come loose you can have any frame and hive you want.

as ever with most people if you remove the uk bit in your description and realy say where your from or where you are planning on keeping the bees uk or europe these answers will also help if your in europe i would defffinately go poly hive not timber and i would also go either lang or dadant not national

there that should confuse you

 

[JCBrum]

For a beginner, with 'average' bees, a National brood box is easier to fill and get the bees up into the supers to store honey. It's probably cheaper too.

BUT, if you want to forsake wood, and go plastic, then Langstroth is the obvious choice.

For the amateur/garden beekeeper with up to three hives, Nats or WBC (pretty), and the right bees, are hard to beat I think.

 

[Onge]

where do you want to start

size of box, lang is larger but national is more common in the uk but no one uses them abroad realy
how about cell size of a 12 by 14 say to a lang and we are equal, the list is endless,

but if i can be very rude try this answer.
most UK nucs are served up on a national frame it being the most common in the uk, so if your supplier for next year and i would by now have started to either pre pay or at least order your nuc to beat the que, if he can supply in either of the frames or you have the ability to order without frames ie easy bee where they come loose you can have any frame and hive you want.

as ever with most people if you remove the uk bit in your description and realy say where your from or where you are planning on keeping the bees uk or europe these answers will also help if your in europe i would defffinately go poly hive not timber and i would also go either lang or dadant not national

there that should confuse you

You can get "National Frame Conversion Kit" from

www.modernbeekeeping.co.uk

That will enable you to transfer a national nuc straight into a langstroth, and there reusable.

 

[thurrock bees]

if you can, ask a beekeepers who has both the nat and lang, ask them what your thinking and go tho both hives and see what you prefer.

 

[the naked beekeeper]

What benefits do plastic hives have over wooden?

 

[GingerNut]

What benefits do plastic hives have over wooden?

Weigh less

More insulation

Cheaper



Yours Roy

 

[Catford1]

Thanks all. I'm in south east London.

I'm looking at 2 or 3 hives maximum (famous last words I'm sure) so National sounds like the way to go.

 

[MR MELLIFERA]

A new Langstroth hive will cost a quarter of what a National hive will. Langstroth hives are also top bee space far superior to bottom beespace nationals. Once you have worked a Langstroth hive there is no way you would go back to a national. Most commercial beekeepers in the UK would be using Langstroths.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The largest honey farm in the country uses wooden nationals.

 

[BKF Admin]

A new Langstroth hive will cost a quarter of what a National hive will. Langstroth hives are also top bee space far superior to bottom beespace nationals. Once you have worked a Langstroth hive there is no way you would go back to a national. Most commercial beekeepers in the UK would be using Langstroths.

Why is top bee space superior ?

 

[steve1958]

A new Langstroth hive will cost a quarter of what a National hive will.

From what I have seen in the Catalogues, Langstroth hives cost more. Maybe they are just expensive in the UK.

 

[Finman]

From what I have seen in the Catalogues, Langstroth hives cost more. Maybe they are just expensive in the UK.

It depends on material. Here wooden insulated box is 2 times expencive that of plastic (2-wall ply).

Then your framecost is as big as the box. It is awfull. 3 times that of Finland.

If you make your self bottom and covers. It means much.

One fundamental issue is that langstroth is essential in migratory beekeeping.
As essential is 2/3 langstroth= medium supers.

In british beekeeping esthetical issues seems to be important. Propblem is that profilic queens and esthetical do not fit together.

Plastic hive is light to lift. Empty Langstroth box is only 1 kg. Ply box is heavy.

 

[Finman]

.
Finnish prices

Wooden langstroth box 34 €
Honey plastic box 14 €

Wooden bottom 20 €

plastic bottom 13 €

Frame sticks o,54 per piece
Frames assembled and wired 1,35

frames with fundation 2,65

Foundations 10 €/kg

One foundation langstroth = 100 g

.

 

[Gaz Fella]

Hmm.
I note a Langstroth:
"A complete Langstroth beehive in high density polystyrene comprising roof, brood chamber, cambuckle strap and floor with varroa tray and aluminium mesh at a £5.00 discount (almost 10%) from the total price of the items if they were purchased separately... £49.50 "

I have yet to find a new National Hive of any sort at anywhere near this price .... can you???

[quote is from http://www.modernbeekeeping.co.uk/item/10/40010-basic-langstroth-hive ]

 

[Haughton Honey]

Personally, I have found that I like Nationals with double brood box.

Yes yes, I know people say that two boxes is a pain, but I like the idea of being able to do a 'full brood box comb exchange' in one go at the beginning of the season and also be able to swap stores around - not possible with brood and a half. The space also suits my fairly prolific bees and my only swarm this year was from a bought-in nuc last week!

 

[MR MELLIFERA]

The prices in the US are very competitive
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/ListProduct.asp?idCategory=28

 

[BKF Admin]

Is Rooftops on holiday ?

 

[RoofTops]

No, but I am mindful of not trying to use this forum for free advertsing or end up getting into spats. However, I'll take a small liberty if I may.

My first hive was a wooden National which I bought second hand. When I wanted to expand I saw the prices of wooden hives in the catalogues of the main suppliers and promptly needed to lie down to recover.

A bit of research led me to poly hives and I went for Langstroth on the basis that you effectively got more bees for your money. Frames all cost about the same as do the hive bodies themselves so I argued, go for a larger hive to begin with. This may not apply to true AMM type bees but for the sort of bees I could get they have proved very suitable. I didn't go for Jumbo sized Langstroth as I always intended to do a bit of migratory beekeeping.

Ultimately, it is a question of personal preference. People who like pretty hives will be very happy with WBCs, others will think keeping bees in a wooden hive of any sort is more natural, though what is natural about keeping bees in a thin-walled wooden box beats me. If the natural home of bees in this part of the world is a hole in a tree then the bees should be surrounded by several inches of insulating wood and of course have plenty of ventilation to keep the humidity down. Exactly the conditions poly hives provide - and possibly WBCs and Warre hives but I would rule the former out on cost grounds alone, unless home made or bought second hand, and the latter are not exactly main stream at the moment.

What I find a little sad is the number of beginners who trot along to the local supplier and buy a national hive without ever being told there are alternatives. If they were in Scandinavia or Germany they would probably be told about wooden hives during the history section of their beginners course and then they would not be mentioned again. I have several catalogues from European suppliers which do not list a single wooden hive any more.

On price and performance poly hives are unbeatable. If they didn't work I wouldn't sell them. I've never had a single complaint, only customers coming back for more.

A former president of the BBKA admitted to me in an e-mail "plastic hives will never take on in the UK as beekeeping here is more amateur than in Europe". I fear he is right but I am trying to correct it.