Keeping Warre's commercially

[Erichalfbee]

On a small scale I’ve crushed and strained pollen rich frames. It’s delicious but very different.

I have 15lb of that with pollen not strained out from super frames that were rich in pollen. I never thought of selling it. I use it as a starter for bread

 

[Lislarybees]

I have 15lb of that with pollen not strained out from super frames that were rich in pollen. I never thought of selling it. I use it as a starter for bread

I’ve seen another beekeeper in Ireland selling pollen ‘enriched’ honey but I think they add pollen harvested separately back into their honey.

I think there would be a bit of marketing needed but there’s definitely potential there to sell something unusual.

 

[Lislarybees]

 

[Erichalfbee]

Mine looks like that

 

[Shiny one]

I'm prepared for the flak! I've already sunk thousands into various Nationals, but having read David Heaf's fascinating books and The Idle Beekeeper which was equally fascinating, I'm wondering if it's possible to keep bees commercially in a Warre type system (utilising my National equipment) of just towering brood boxes upon one another and taking the nadired boxes occasionally with minimal intervention/inspections apart from sublimation, largely for some out apiaries that are open to me but too far to bother travelling to every week during May and June? Bill Anderson cites the honey from such hives as being comparable to Manuka for UMF, presumably because honey recovered from it has come from previously inhabited brood cells that were then coated with propolis and refilled with honey? I've got a hydropress for my main crop of heather already so the faff and mess would be minimal. Worth experimenting with or just plain stupid? Heaf claims there are already several beefarmers doing this with Warre's but I've not heard of any. Grateful for any constructive input, cheers, R

Mallfroys Gold in the Blue Mountains do this and we are in our second year of doing the same!

 

[Shiny one]

From the 5th edition of Warres book, copied from the bio bees website (my highlight):

"Nowadays, I recommend without hesitation the People's Hive with fixed combs, even for very large enterprises. [...] However, out of respect for the freedom of my readers, I will describe the People's Hive in its three forms: fixed comb, ordinary frames, open frames with closed ends"

Illegal here in Australia. We are obliged to use frames in our Warre hives.

 

[Shiny one]

Anyone successfully spun Warre frames?

 

[rolande]

Illegal here in Australia. We are obliged to use frames in our Warre hives.

No, that's out of context. My post which you've quoted was to point out to finman that warre did allow the use of frames

 

[rolande]

Anyone successfully spun Warre frames?

Warre did, as I believe Bernhard Heuval did/does.

ICKO in France sell a warre frame extractor (at least, they certainly did up to quite recently when I last looked at their website)

 

[Wilco]

No, that's out of context. My post which you've quoted was to point out to finman that warre did allow the use of frames

But interesting in light of the prior claim by another that they know someone who ran a 2000 hive setup in Austrailia with the implication it was a frameless Warre setup... More clarification needed.




Likewise, given they crush the comb, I think the 'unfiltered' honey on their site looks remarkably clear. It must be strained at least IMO.

 

[fian]

Portuguese reversivel hives (used widely in the south) are run - as I understand it - on a Warre-like system, but in boxes (not dissimilar to nationals in size) with moveable frames. That is to say they generally use a single size of box, no excluder, and under-super.

... So it's clearly viable as a commercial 'method'.

Like @pargyle , I am experimenting - both with a standard Warre, and with foundationless nationals, run on similar principles (and with solid floor, XYZ intrances etc...).

Whilst I've only been running the latter for a couple of years, my initial thoughts are that the bees seem more settled. Swarming is minimal, and Queens are not getting replaced as frequently. Maybe just coincidence.

On the honey quality (from the Warre), whilst I think you'd be hard-pushed to assert it contained beneficial compounds equivalent to Manuka, the fact that the comb has previously been used for brood, and the fact that, when crushed, pollen in any cells bleeds out into the honey in great quantity both mean that the resulting honey I have extracted is super, super rich and aromatic. I've had it described to me as 'honey to the power of ten' and 'honey on steroids'.

Of course, those who choose not to believe me are welcome to opine that it's all bollocks

In the Portuguese system there are 3 heights (260/200 and 130) and two configurations:
A. lusitano/classico with nest at 260 and supers at 130
B. reversible in which everything goes to 200.
Nor is it anything new, they are the same original configurations that Dadant and Lansgtroth offered.

 

[jarmo henttu]

MAny habits

 

[fian]

First we must clarify what we mean by the Warre method and, regardless of the box size, the only two actions in its management are:
A. Wintering in 2 boxes or equivalent to 12 kg of honey for climatic conditions in France.
B. The addition of boxes at the bottom.
Now we could discuss whether common actions of today's beekeeping can be compatible or not:
1. Treatment for varroa.
2. Method of harvesting (remove the upper drawer maintaining a fixed number of 3 modules, use extractor (the honeycomb would be reusable and under what replacement conditions) or press (wax is also a bee product that can be sold or reincorporated into the box as starting strips).

 

[Lislarybees]

But interesting in light of the prior claim by another that they know someone who ran a 2000 hive setup in Austrailia with the implication it was a frameless Warre setup... More clarification needed.

View attachment 40621


Likewise, given they crush the comb, I think the 'unfiltered' honey on their site looks remarkably clear. It must be strained at least IMO.

I didn’t imply that. I said Tim’s Dad and my mate ran a 2000 colony commercial operation.
They used langstroths. That influenced his decision (and I don’t want to quote Tim here just someone that knows him) to opt for a different approach.

 

[warsaw_hive]

Anyone successfully spun Warre frames?

Frames and top bars. I have a small cheapo 3 frame tangential extractor and one thing I will say is it is quite awkward getting the small combs in and out. They obviously sit lower in the extractor and the gap is not big to get your arm/hand down. I keep meaning to take my angle grinder to the extractor basket as mine has a really annoying central disk that you scrape your hand on.

Warré used cages to enclose his top bar combs before putting them in the extractor. If they've had brood in them then I've found this totally unnecessary.

This works well if you've taken a spring crop as straight frames/comb can go straight back on the hive. These old combs get fewer attachments to the box walls and can in effect be worked like frames.

Spinning frames/comb in autumn is less appealing as you're left with a storage problem.

 

[jarmo henttu]

First we must clarify what we mean by the Warre method and, regardless of the box size, the only two actions in its management are:
A. Wintering in 2 boxes or equivalent to 12 kg of honey for climatic conditions in France.
B. The addition of boxes at the bottom.
Now we could discuss whether common actions of today's beekeeping can be compatible or not:
1. Treatment for varroa.
2. Method of harvesting (remove the upper drawer maintaining a fixed number of 3 modules, use extractor (the honeycomb would be reusable and under what replacement conditions) or press (wax is also a bee product that can be sold or reincorporated into the box as starting strips).

At least warre hive is not my problem. Neither long hive or flow hive. And many others.