I've had an idea -- Varroa

[ShinySideUp]

Firstly, if anyone has tried this before then please say and I'll commit this to the section entitled 'Ideas I should have thought of earlier'

Now I'm new to beekeeping but I have been studying Varroa treatments at length, one of those treatments is the dusting of bees with icing sugar. Now I believe that one of the downsides of this method is the high level of manipulation required and this is where my idea comes in. If I am correct, icing sugar is either dusted on to the combs after lifting out or dusted in to the top of the frames. What if I used a household fan placed underneath the OMF, removed the roof and after starting the fan dusted icing sugar into the air stream thus driving the sugar up through the hive without any manipulation at all? Might this work?

I have two hives with no bees in at the moment and once the weather gets a bit less wet I shall try it and see how much air flow is required to get the requisite amount of icing sugar into the hive.

Just a thought.

 

[masterBK]

Dusting only removes phoretic mites but most of the mites in the hive on in the sealed brood and so not affected by the icing sugar.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Dusting only removes phoretic mites but most of the mites in the hive on in the sealed brood and so not affected by the icing sugar.

Oh yes, I'm aware of that, but every little helps and if this method works it is an extremely quick partial fix that can be done between weekly inspections since it involves no disturbance of the hive at all with the exception of removing the roof for a couple of minutes (if it even takes that long).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The largest downside of icing sugar dusting is that it is very near pointless and a total waste of time and the method should be consigned to the rubbish heap together with a few other things suggested by many..

 

[ShinySideUp]

Ok, I'm not going to get in to an argument that I am ill-equipped to defend but it seems to me that while the mites are in the cells nothing can get to them, so anything that can affect phoretic mites can't be a bad thing. I read this article in full

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/powdered-sugar-dusting-sweet-and-safe-but-does-it-really-work-part-1/

and it seems that if done very regularly, dusting with icing sugar can hold a population of mites in check. The author found that weekly dusting was most effective but is time-consuming for the beek to do it so often...hence my idea about rapid dusting using a fan making it more likely that the dusting is done as often as necessary. I might suggest every four days from what I've learned about Varroa life-cycles.

 

[MuswellMetro]

The largest downside of icing sugar dusting is that it is very near pointless and a total waste of time and the method should be consigned to the rubbish heap together with a few other things suggested by many..

yes see link to abstract http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3896/IBRA.1.48.1.14

it also clogs the open brood and a % of the brood dies

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Things have moved on since that article in Scientific Beekeeping -I'll say it again icing sugar is nigh on useless and of no use whatsoever in any IPM - it's been tested lately and it's inefficacy proven.
Icing sugar is has only two uses in beekeeping - a full sugar roll for mite count and for dusting cakes for a social evening.

 

[pargyle]

Things have moved on since that article in Scientific Beekeeping -I'll say it again icing sugar is nigh on useless and of no use whatsoever in any IPM - it's been tested lately and it's inefficacy proven.
Icing sugar is has only two uses in beekeeping - a full sugar roll for mite count and for dusting cakes for a social evening.

Even me - who doesn't treat his bees - agrees with this ! If you feel the need to treat bees for varroa then OA by sublimation is the least invasive, most effective treatment. If you have brood in the hive then further treatments at five day intervals will give a very high removal rate.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Seems I may be a bit out of date then, oh well it was just a thought.

I did watch a YT video on the use of OA sublimation and it did seem pretty quick and [relatively] harmless so long as the user stayed well up-wind.

Pargyle -- what do you mean, you don't treat your bees? Are you very lucky, have a secret mechanical method, or perhaps are a closet wizard ?

 

[pargyle]

Pargyle -- what do you mean, you don't treat your bees?/QUOTE]

I have never treated my bees for varroa ... I'm not alone - there are quite a few of us out here. They are surviving, they are healthy and they produce a honey crop ... there are varroa in the colonies but they seem to be coping with it.

There are lots of threads on here about bees that are un-treated.

I have highly insulated hives, they (as far as possible) live on their own honey stores, I am foundation free and the bees are permitted to build their own comb within my 14 x 12 bare but wired frames. Nothing goes into my hives unless the bees bring it in, I don't disturb them unduly although I practice swarm control during the swarming season - I am not a leave alone beekeeper.

I'm not saying that I would never treat them for varroa if they showed signs of an unmanageable infestation - I monitor the mite levels in the hives by a variety of methods and so far I have managed my colonies without the need for any varroa treatments.

No wizardry - I think some bees, in certain circumstances, in some locations and with a degree of luck are capable of surviving despite there being varroa in the hive - it's not an easy path to tread and there are risks that you could lose colonies - but I haven't experienced any of the varroa vectored diseases in my bees and I have not lost a colony. I use icing sugar rolls to check the level of mites in the hive as well as monitoring the daily natural drop ... it all takes time and my hives are in the garden and accessible

It's not a style of beekeeping for everyone, it attracts a degree of criticism and adverse comment but it is possible but, if you are new to beekeeping, it's probably safer to follow a more traditional route until you get to know your bees.

I have used OA by sublimation on other bee colonies I have assisted with and if I felt that my bees required some assistance to thrive then that is the method I would use asI think it is the least invasive and the most effective treatment available at present for varroa. I have a home made OA sublimator and access to a Varrox - a word of caution, standing upwind when applying this treatment is not enough -you need a suitable respirator and other health & safety precautions.

 

[Fusion_power]

not in the UK, but have not treated my bees since the fall of 2004. I find very few mites in them.

 

[Little John]

Just a thought.

And it was a good thought ...

Until somebody comes up with a really effective method of ridding the western world of these parasites, every avenue needs to be explored.

But - as others have commented, this has been tried before, and without much success. A number of machines have been built - the one used by the author of the following quotation was made from a 'shop vac' used in reverse to blow the sugar out from the nozzle.

In conclusion, powdered sugar treatment resulted in lower colony Varroa levels in two of eight (25%) separate analyses. We have evidence that powdered sugar is most efficacious when it can be applied early in the season and exploit a winter brood-free period. A labor-saving technique of applying powdered sugar dust at hive entrances with forced air appears to be less disruptive to colony bee populations than a more invasive practice of sifting sugar onto exposed brood comb top bars. In spite of these highlights, we cannot pretend that these results are a strong affirmation of powdered sugar in the fight against Varroa.
The method was ineffective at reducing Varroa in 75% of our analyses. Moreover, 10-month colony survival between treated and non-treated colonies was virtually identical, and poor, at 38-39%. Powdered sugar is, at best, another “weak” IPM component that may contribute toward Varroa management when used in conjunction with other components.

'Revisiting Powdered Sugar For Varroa Control On Honey Bees (Apis mellifera L)', Jennifer Berry BEE CULTURE January 2013. [originally published in the Journal Of Apicultural Research (an IBRA publication)]

Others have reported similar results. Essentially, sugar-dusting is a very useful method of testing bees to determine their mite load - but sadly, this does not extend to it being a very effective mite management tool.
LJ

 

[Finman]

.
Doctor study about sugar dusting of varroa was published in Helsinki University 2001.
So, method was invented 20 years ago, and it has never worked on practice. Laboratory gove first good results, but method does not work in hive level.

Practical methods need over 90% efficacy.
.
At same time European Union Varroa Group tested thymol, formic acid and oxalic acid methods 1998-2003. Those methods gove at their best 96% efficacy.
.

 

[oliver90owner]

As I have said, many a time, icing sugar is only effective when 'sugar rolling', not dusting. Simple.

 

[Finman]

not in the UK, but have not treated my bees since the fall of 2004. I find very few mites in them.

But your case does not even help USA, where annual dead rate of hives is 40%. Main reason is varroa.

And your Russian bees. Typical winter cluster size is 2-4 frames. Those clusters would not survive in Finnish winter even if they do not have a single mite. Perhaps as treated Russian bees do not need to draw out winter bee brood and so they would get better cluster.

Do nothing method does not work with varroa. Why to advertise it?
Amerikan hobby beekeepers advertise it, and among hobby beekeepers dead rates are something over 50% per year.

To rear mites or produce honey.... That is a new idea .
.
.

 

[Finman]

As I have said, many a time, icing sugar is only effective when 'sugar rolling', not dusting. Simple.

Simple to roll 6 box hive and 2 boxes of brood?

 

[For want of a better word]

Some of the longer standing members on this forum may remember my post about Icing sugar that was used in the confectionery industry that contained an antic~ cakeing agent called Oxalic acid.
My guess is that some of this icing sugar may have been used on varroa infested bees with dramatic results.

I am with JBM on this....
however since using Generic OA is now banned as not approved by the VMD in the UK, I shall experiment with Rhubarb leaves and Vimto trickle... on the yellow stripy bees... the Cornish Native Black bees do not have a varroa problem.

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

.
Beesource forum has an method (2007 y)

Heat up food vinegar 5% in microwave up to steaming stage and keep bees 1 inch above the vinegar. Mites jump off from bee.

.

 

[Finman]

.
Most acidity of rhubard stem comes from malic acid.

IT was tested the reactions of varroa to malic acid, citric acid and acetic acid on varroa. Mortality of mites did not differ much from natural mortality of mites.
.

 

[For want of a better word]

.
Most acidity of rhubard stem comes from malic acid.

IT was tested the reactions of varroa to malic acid, citric acid and acetic acid on varroa. Mortality of mites did not differ much from natural mortality of mites.
.

See pp42 to pp42 The Beekeepers Quarterly No 127 March 2017
treating Varroa Naturally with Rhubarb Leaves Maciej and Ann Winiarski Poland

Finni my sweet
... stop counting your reindeer and read this exciting new method to rid your 25 colonies of little yellow stripey girls of Varroa !!

Yeghes da