Is this label legal and the price!!!!

[MuswellMetro]

As for many of the leaflets, it has no indication where the legislation is that covers particular rules. That is not good. Reading it you have no idea what legislation might have been amended. And there is no distinction between what is legislation, what is interpretation and what is merely unqualified opinion or hearsay.

A question that came up before, it's not the only 'guide' that asserts this 'rule'. It's what makes these documents so annoying; how do you know any of the rules have anything behind them other than repetition? I looked into what was available in the published legislation and official government department guidance. There is nothing I could see that specifies you need a gap between the number and the unit symbol. This is the trail as I found it:

The basic legislation for all goods is the "Weights and Measures Act 1985".
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/72/enacted

"The Weights and Measures (Quantity Marking and Abbreviations of Units) Regulations 1987" http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1987/1538/contents/made was where the specification of size and format on labelling was first set down.

I have seen qualified honey show judges assert that other items have minimum sizes when awarding the label category. As most probably know, they don't, the only size specified is for the weight. Minimum 4 mm high for packages exceeding 200 g to 1 kg, 3 mm exceeding 50 g to 200 g, 2 mm for not exceeding 50g.

These rules were amended and carried forward by the "The Weights and Measures (Packaged Goods) Regulations 2006" http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/659/made This is where the current rules are laid down about which units and abbreviations are allowed. For weight of honey, for instance, the permitted units are kg for kilograms or g for grams. The quantity must be numeric and the units written in full or with the permitted abbreviation. It can be written as 500 g or 500 grams. Not five hundred grams. No other abbreviations such as “gr" or "gm". No derived units other than grams and kilograms such as decagrams.

A space between the number and the unit is the format used in all the official legislation and examples in the notes. A space is part of the scientific SI standard. However. If there is any mention of requiring a space on labels in the current legislation or official guidance notes, I can't see it. It's just not referred to.

Look for practical examples. He1nz baked beans have no gap between the number and the 'g'. If there is a single branded and packaged product that sells in greater numbers in the UK than He1nz baked beans, I can't think what it would be. On the other hand their soup cans have a gap. No distinction, rhyme or reason. So no, you don't need a gap because if it was ever specified in some obscure corner of legislation it is obsolete. Or it might as well be because it's not in the working set of legislation Trading Standards enforce.

Another specific rule in many many 'guides' that has been overtaken is that the weight has to be certain specific quantities, 454 g for instance. That was abolished in "The Weights and Measures (Specified Quantities) (Pre-packed Products) Regulations 2009" www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/663/made Your package can be any weight as long it is legibly labelled in the prescribed way.

You did ask.

thanks

at least as a Physicists, i appreciate the thoroughness of the answer from a Chemist, like you i always try to go back to first principles...and you have got further than i did

i have posted the same request on the new BBKA exam section of their forum, lets see what Mr Paterson comes up with, it is their document

 

[fiftyjon]

No, the 'field of view' can be on the back - I checked before having mine printed. - all the mandatory crap is on the back of the jar, nice label as commanded by SWMBO on the front.

Thanks JBM,

It was a question asked that I knew the answer, just questioning the statement in the OP.

Having it all on one label is convenient for labelling but when I have used up my T's labels I'll be using a front and back as you are 'commanded' to do.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Local organic shop near me wanted % content and Calories information on the label as in their words " our customers are Calorie concerned"...now all the stores have it on thier labels and it appears just an average as it is the same on all jars

so does any firm do those calorie/%compostion generic Honey labels for beekeepers ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It won't be long before someone somewhere will ask for a label to include

'Warning - may contain nuts (or pollen thereof)'​

 

[itma]

...
so does any firm do those calorie/%compostion generic Honey labels for beekeepers ?

I'd be a bit careful about putting anything other than
Ingredients: Honey.
bearing in mind last year's GM-related kerfuffle about whether pollen was a component or an (added) ingredient of honey, I'd want to steer well clear.

 

[itma]

...

Another specific rule in many many 'guides' that has been overtaken is that the weight has to be certain specific quantities, 454 g for instance. That was abolished in "The Weights and Measures (Specified Quantities) (Pre-packed Products) Regulations 2009" www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/663/made Your package can be any weight as long it is legibly labelled in the prescribed way.

You did ask.

Looks like its strangely more complicated.

That 2009 SI includes this section

Amendment to the Weights and Measures (Miscellaneous Foods) Order 1988

5. (1) The Weights and Measures (Miscellaneous Foods) Order 1988(6) is amended as follows.

(2) In article 3, after paragraph (4) insert—

“(5) If any of the foods (other than chunk honey) specified in column 1 of Schedule 1 to this Order is made up in advance ready for retail sale or wholesale in a securely closed container, the requirement in paragraph (1) that it be sold only in one of the quantities specified in column 2 in relation to the food does not apply.”.

Which makes it look as though CHUNK Honey (only) must still be sold only in the specified quantities.
Or am I missing something else?

 

[itma]

...
Or am I missing something else?

Yes.
The 1988 original already exempted chunk and comb honey from the prescribed quantities.
So chunk honey is actually exempted twice (and comb just once) ... Doh!

Too late at night to be fussing with this!

 

[alanf]

Which makes it look as though CHUNK Honey (only) must still be sold only in the specified quantities. Or am I missing something else?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/2040/made has:

General requirements for certain foods to be pre-packed in prescribed quantities and their containers to be quantity marked or, when not pre-packed, to be sold by retail by quantity

3. (1) Subject to the following provisions of this Order, the foods specified in column 1 of Schedule 1 to this Order, other than chunk honey and comb honey and cut lump salt, shall be pre-packed or, in the case of sugar, otherwise made up in a container for sale, only if they are made up in one of the quantities by net weight, or, in the case of milk, by capacity measurement, specified in column 2 in relation to the foods, subject to the exceptions specified in column 3.

(2) Subject to the following provisions of this Order, the foods specified in column 1 of Schedule 1 to this Order, other than cut lump salt and milk, shall be pre-packed or, in the case of honey, cocoa products and chocolate products, solid and paste coffee and chicory products and sugar, otherwise made up in a container for sale, only if the container is marked with an indication of quantity by net weight, subject to the exemptions specified in column 4.

(3) Subject to the following provisions of this Order, the foods specified in column 1 of Schedule 1 to this Order, other than bread and chunk honey and comb honey and milk, shall, when not pre-packed, if sold by retail be sold only by net weight, subject to the exceptions specified in column 5.

to which the 2009 amendment adds:

(5) If any of the foods (other than chunk honey) specified in column 1 of Schedule 1 to this Order is made up in advance ready for retail sale or wholesale in a securely closed container, the requirement in paragraph (1) that it be sold only in one of the quantities specified in column 2 in relation to the food does not apply.

There is no paragraph 4 in the original legislation, neither is it added in 2009. Is it created as an amendment sometime between 1988 and 2009? The new paragraph 5 makes sense, as you say, if comb and chunk honey is already excluded (column 1, schedule 1 just refers to "honey"). No idea where paragraph 4 comes from though. And why does para 5 refer to chunk honey and only chunk honey when previously the exemption was for chunk and comb (and lump salt). Could just be poor drafting, it's not unknown. What we're left with is that any form of honey has to be sold by weight but you can choose what weight that is, or that's as I read it.

 

[YorkshireBees]

Can't see the label (maybe attachment has been removed?).

A few points I picked up from a talk given by a local council officer regarding labeling / sale of honey to our BKA.

1. As others have said Honey can be sold in any weight so long as that weight is clearly shown on the label.

2. A lot or batch number is not required (in his opinion) if the best before date is specified in the form dd/mm/yy as this acts in effect as a batch number.

In terms of price, as others have said, I too believe local produced honey is totally under valued and it SHOULD be sold for more than most do.
If they manage to get that price then well done to them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

In terms of price, as others have said, I too believe local produced honey is totally under valued and it SHOULD be sold for more than most do.

I think a label can make all the difference here.
I sell my thorne labelled honey for £4.50 for 340g
I tried....as an experiment....putting out a few jars with nice labels for £5.00 They went in a flash!
I was lucky enough to get a Spring crop of "tree honey" this year so sold jars labelled Spring and Summer honey
I offered tasting and where most people preferred on or t'other they equally bought one of each because the labels were "pretty" and different.
.....shrug

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think a label can make all the difference here.
I sell my thorne labelled honey for £4.50 for 340g
I tried....as an experiment....putting out a few jars with nice labels for £5.00 They went in a flash!
I was lucky enough to get a Spring crop of "tree honey" this year so sold jars labelled Spring and Summer honey
I offered tasting and where most people preferred on or t'other they equally bought one of each because the labels were "pretty" and different.
.....shrug

With all of it really - but with experience it is always better to give the punter the choice of more than one honey if you have a stall. A few years ago we found that people on tasting a selection would always prefer A to B or vice versa and would then buy it as it was 'better' but in actual fact all the honey was identical and just because there was more than one tasting jar they assumed they were diferent, since then we have always had two piles, although they have genuinely been different and it's funny to see one person singing the praises of one whilst another enthuses over another - they both invariably buy a jar each just to prove their point, then you get others who buy both as either they're not sure which they prefer or just in case they picked the wrong one.
I think if you just offer one product you don't wake their curiosity and they often just walk past the stall, but once they stop to see what the difference is betweeen the two, you're halfway there to a sale (even if you tell them before they decide that there is no difference). I shall be offering two genuinely different clear honeys on SWMBO's stall at her works craft market next week, taster jar with each, but if i am lucky enough to sell out of one the two taster jars will still sit there to lure them in

 

[Queens59]

But...where do you buy 'nice' labels Erichalfbee????

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

SWMBO conceived our label and the finishing touches were done by a colleague of mine who moonlights as a web/graphics designer. I got them printed locally

 

[Erichalfbee]

But...where do you buy 'nice' labels Erichalfbee????

Home designed printed online.
These are the ones I use at present though it's still a work in progress.
Before you say what's missing. It's on other labels.
I have a circular address label on the bottom of the jars and one label has honey from Wales on it so I haven't put "produce of Wales" on it.
BUT as I say....a work in progress

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ah...one attachment is a pdf.
Here it is as a jpeg

 

[itma]

...
Before you say what's missing. It's on other labels.
I have a circular address label on the bottom of the jars and one label has honey from Wales on it so I haven't put "produce of Wales" on it.
BUT as I say....a work in progress

Erica, I know its bonkers, but calling it "Honey from Wales" doesn't seem to cover the statutory requirement to explicitly state the country of production.
And putting an address label on the bottom is going to fail the "single field of view" test.

A lot of commercially-offered labels also (like yours) fail to meet the requirement that the statutory information 'must not be interrupted by any other pictorial or text matter' - which seems to me to be saying that it mustn't be overprinted on top of a picture.

Personally, I reckon that a "statutory information only" (text-only) label is the way to go, with an additional larger decorative and interesting label for marketing purposes that does not suffer the constraints of the statutory labelling (which is round the other side of the jar).

 

[Erichalfbee]

Personally, I reckon that a "statutory information only" (text-only) label is the way to go, with an additional larger decorative and interesting label for marketing purposes that does not suffer the constraints of the statutory labelling (which is round the other side of the jar).

OK I can understand that.
I have looked at lots of labels that don't conform in super and mini markets.
I shall use all mine up then maybe go that way.
Doing that means you can put an unsullied picture on the front of the jar, and all the other info in two lines on the back.

 

[o.stjohn]

Can't see the label (maybe attachment has been removed?).

<-- is this the one?

 

[Norfolk]

just popped in to my local Organic Shop and noticed this London Honey

Is the label legal?

Tthe weight is not in the field of veiw but is printed at 90 degrees to the main label and hidden around the Hex edge so when you look at the jar straight on you cannot see the weight

The beekeeper also manages I think Fortnum and Masons hives, so hence the price £11.49 for 227g or in imperial £22,98 per lb

I can't see a label ?
Am I being thick or has it gone ?

 

[REDWOOD]

So how does this one comply