Is this another doomed hive?

[Salamagundy]

Newbee in my second season:

I've been feeding thymolated 2:1 syrup and treating with Apiguard for the last month.

I inspected my hives today, and was relieved to see BIAS in all but one.

This one has nine frames of stores, much of it sealed, bees on seven frames but no brood.

During the Apiguard treatment I've seen only polished cells in all the hives and hoped that the queens had temporarily gone off lay. This seems to have been the case in all but this hive.

None of my queens is marked due to my inability to find them....

What should I do, given that it's now the end of September?

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[meidel]

if you're thinking of combining you should do the usual test frame of eggs/young larvae to see if there's a queen in there. If they don't make queen cells, I'd leave them to go through the winter on their own. If they start making queen cells you'll know they're queenless and I'd combine them with another colony.

 

[Salamagundy]

if you're thinking of combining you should do the usual test frame of eggs/young larvae to see if there's a queen in there. If they don't make queen cells, I'd leave them to go through the winter on their own. If they start making queen cells you'll know they're queenless and I'd combine them with another colony.

Thanks, Meidel. I'll put in a test frame next time it's not raining. If they do start building queen cells would there be any chance of them accepting a bought-in queen if I could source one?

 

[meidel]

yeah quite likely i should think - destroy the queen cells first though ... i think.

 

[enrico]

I agree with what meidel says but I personally think you are worrying too much! I would leave them. Queens are not all the same, they go off lay.....but a test frame certainly does no harm..... I would bet you have a queen in there though.....I know RAB... total guess!!!

 

[Snail368]

Treated syrup and Apigard? Wouldn't that be a double dose of thymol?

Surely, you should only be doing one or the other, as all treatments are dose related?

 

[Skyhook]

Treated syrup and Apigard? Wouldn't that be a double dose of thymol?

Surely, you should only be doing one or the other, as all treatments are dose related?

The amount of thymol in the syrup in so small that I wouldn't expect it to make much difference. It may be the straw that breaks the camels back, but I would say the chances of the combined treatments doing good are much greater than that of them doing harm.

 

[Salamagundy]

I agree with what meidel says but I personally think you are worrying too much! I would leave them. Queens are not all the same, they go off lay.....but a test frame certainly does no harm..... I would bet you have a queen in there though.....I know RAB... total guess!!!

Thanks Enrico. Let's hope I find some eggs in there before I put in a test frame.

I think you're right about worrying! One of the challenges for me as a beginner this year has been judging how long I could leave any given situation before it became irretrievable. I got it wrong more than I got it right!

 

[Salamagundy]

The amount of thymol in the syrup in so small that I wouldn't expect it to make much difference. It may be the straw that breaks the camels back, but I would say the chances of the combined treatments doing good are much greater than that of them doing harm.

Thanks Snail and Skyhook. Last year I did Apiguard first and then fed but I was late getting started this year and people seemed to think it was ok to do both at the same time. What has surprised me has been the difference in schedules in different parts of the country. The received wisdom round here is to take any crop on 15th August and start Apiguard asap after that. Probably quite cautious....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The received wisdom round here is to take any crop on 15th August and start Apiguard asap after that.

more like a voice in the wilderness!! but then they do have some strange ideas in W Carms BKA
Got Apiguard and Thymol syrup on the same time same as before (when they had no problems) I took my crop off a fortnight ago.

Two of my queens (from completely different stock) went completely off their lay weeks ago before any treatment - Apiguard on yesterday so don't worry overly yet. There is one queen breeder in Sir Aberteifi who says he'll supply queens into October (I have the details if you want them)

 

[Salamagundy]

more like a voice in the wilderness!! but then they do have some strange ideas in W Carms BKA
Got Apiguard and Thymol syrup on the same time same as before (when they had no problems) I took my crop off a fortnight ago.

Two of my queens (from completely different stock) went completely off their lay weeks ago before any treatment - Apiguard on yesterday so don't worry overly yet. There is one queen breeder in Sir Aberteifi who says he'll supply queens into October (I have the details if you want them)

Diolch yn fawr iawn, jb! My mentor said his queens did the same. I'm just concerned that I don't leave it so long that the bees are all too old to get through the winter and/or won't accept a queen.

As I say, the suggested 15th August was probably cautious but maybe not a bad thing for a beginner, when the advice was also to treat for Varroa first and then feed after that. Mean max. and min. temps on the Met Office site for around here in October don't look that great for Apiguard, but maybe they're being cautious too?

 

[Salamagundy]

I agree with what meidel says but I personally think you are worrying too much! I would leave them. Queens are not all the same, they go off lay.....but a test frame certainly does no harm..... I would bet you have a queen in there though.....I know RAB... total guess!!!

Spot on, Enrico! Had some fine weather this afternoon, went up to put in a test frame and found a small patch of eggs on one frame.

But I can still worry that it was only a small patch, and only on one frame, right?! (Think I'll be able to call myself a beekeeper when I stop worrying....)

 

[Skyhook]

But I can still worry that it was only a small patch, and only on one frame, right?! (Think I'll be able to call myself a beekeeper when I stop worrying....)

Or it might mean you've given up, or you're dead...

 

[richardbees]

and found a small patch of eggs on one frame.

..........and you're still not happy, what on earth were you hoping to find?

 

[Salamagundy]

Or it might mean you've given up, or you're dead...

Is this a hint?

 

[enrico]

Spot on, Enrico! Had some fine weather this afternoon, went up to put in a test frame and found a small patch of eggs on one frame.

But I can still worry that it was only a small patch, and only on one frame, right?! (Think I'll be able to call myself a beekeeper when I stop worrying....)

Well done.....don't hold your breath for much more! Cold weather, they will be hunkering down for winter soon. I would suggest you stop opening the hives now, you will be doing more harm than good. Just enough to treat and feed. That stops you thinking you have a problem and will also cause the bees and you less stress. The next time you open them should be a warm day in feb or march!!! As a new beekeeper this sounds hard but .....
Good luck

 

[Salamagundy]

and found a small patch of eggs on one frame.

..........and you're still not happy, what on earth were you hoping to find?

Sorry - won't try humour again - I'm obviously not good at it....

So, seriously, I am currently very happy with the condition of all my hives.

I was trying to make a humorous allusion to the fact that, in my experience, worrying is part of the condition of the newbee. This seems to be borne out by other newbee posts on this forum and is often remarked on by Enrico.

This season I've had to tip out three boxes full of bees, two with drone laying queens and one where I hung on for too long waiting for a queen to start laying. That wasn't much fun and I think I could have avoided losing the last one at least if I'd had more experience.

Anyway, all too heavy. I'm very grateful for the positive advice I generally get when I come to the forum with my newbee questions.

 

[Salamagundy]

Well done.....don't hold your breath for much more! Cold weather, they will be hunkering down for winter soon. I would suggest you stop opening the hives now, you will be doing more harm than good. Just enough to treat and feed. That stops you thinking you have a problem and will also cause the bees and you less stress. The next time you open them should be a warm day in feb or march!!! As a new beekeeper this sounds hard but .....
Good luck

Thanks, Enrico. Feeding should be over in the next few days and I'll then wrap them up for the Winter.

 

[BeeNice]

Sorry - won't try humour again - I'm obviously not good at it....

So, seriously, I am currently very happy with the condition of all my hives.

I was trying to make a humorous allusion to the fact that, in my experience, worrying is part of the condition of the newbee. This seems to be borne out by other newbee posts on this forum and is often remarked on by Enrico.

This season I've had to tip out three boxes full of bees, two with drone laying queens and one where I hung on for too long waiting for a queen to start laying. That wasn't much fun and I think I could have avoided losing the last one at least if I'd had more experience.

Anyway, all too heavy. I'm very grateful for the positive advice I generally get when I come to the forum with my newbee questions.

We all worry about the condition of our bees going into winter, stores etc, I have one hive that isn't taking down enough syrup, so I will keep hefting and hope for the best and start to add candy sooner than later and treat them as an overwinting nuc. But that aside, you need to now stop opening up and leave them to it. You have done your best for the time being. The next time you should open up is to treat with OxAcid in mid winter. Good luck.
Steven

 

[enrico]

Sorry - won't try humour again - I'm obviously not good at it....

So, seriously, I am currently very happy with the condition of all my hives.

I was trying to make a humorous allusion to the fact that, in my experience, worrying is part of the condition of the newbee. This seems to be borne out by other newbee posts on this forum and is often remarked on by Enrico.

Anyway, all too heavy. I'm very grateful for the positive advice I generally get when I come to the forum with my newbee questions.

I think it was Richardbees that was trying to be humerous .....but then again....maybe not