Insulation

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But keeping bees in Finlands climate says, that answer is not simple physics. What about size of winter cluster, if the box is half full of bees

I have 20 mm poly boxed snd 40 mm polyboxes. Fifference is not douple, when I compare foof condumption after winter.

What about ventilation, like meshfloor? What Physics say to that?

Modern polyhives have 40 mm walls. Our man Derekm doomed those boxes. He measured that handhelds leak energy.

But is the insulation there only to reduce the consumption of food? I was assuming that it contributed to the overall health of the bees. Animals which don't hibernate or have thick fur or body fat to keep them warm seek the best possible shelter from the cold. Are bees so different in not being weakened and made susceptible to illness by being cold?
 
But is the insulation there only to reduce the consumption of food? I was assuming that it contributed to the overall health of the bees. Animals which don't hibernate or have thick fur or body fat to keep them warm seek the best possible shelter from the cold. Are bees so different in not being weakened and made susceptible to illness by being cold?

First of all in wintering is, that bee breed can stand long winter from September to May.
2 things in insulation:
1)reduce food consuption and prevent starving
2) make better spring build up. And then earlier yield foraging.

Hives, which do not hibernate in Finland, they will not see next summer. If hives grow brood in winter, they will die before christamas.

If the hive has some sicknes, it has wintering or good insulation do not make it better
 
First of all in wintering is, that bee breed can stand long winter from September to May.
2 things in insulation:
1)reduce food consuption and prevent starving
2) make better spring build up. And then earlier yield foraging.

Hives, which do not hibernate in Finland, they will not see next summer. If hives grow brood in winter, they will die before christamas.

If the hive has some sicknes, it has wintering or good insulation do not make it better

Thank-you....that is very clear and makes sense.
 
A few points on insulation.

The foil layer on insulation is to reflect radiated heat and is only effective if it has an air gap in front (it is widly misunderstood and missused). So for a bee hive will pretty much do nothing. So dont bother tin foil coating yore polystyrene as its a waste of time and effort.

To join two pieces of insulation, I find cocktail sticks very useful. just *** some into one bit, then push the 2 bits together - if that makes sense. Then finish with a bit of tape. I find the foil tape best (not for its insulation) because it wont come undone if it gets wet.

If you want to stick insulation to your roof, then be careful what adhesive you choose. If you are using celetext type stuff with foil backing anything will do, but if you are using polystyrene, then make sure to use a "non-solvent" one, or it may melt your insulation. Silicone will work too if you dont have adhesive.
 
A few points on insulation.

The foil layer on insulation is to reflect radiated heat and is only effective if it has an air gap in front (it is widly misunderstood and missused). So for a bee hive will pretty much do nothing. So dont bother tin foil coating yore polystyrene as its a waste of time and effort.

Oh, I hadn't realised that!
 
The foil layer on insulation is to reflect radiated heat and is only effective if it has an air gap in front (it is widly misunderstood and missused). So for a bee hive will pretty much do nothing. So dont bother tin foil coating yore polystyrene as its a waste of time and effort.

.

That may apply in the case of foil used alone as a reflective barrier; if it is in contact with a warm surface it will conduct heat away and negate most of the benefits. But when attached to an insulating material such as polystyrene or even better, to PIR, the insulation behind it will resist conduction and the reflective qualities of the foil will still be useful. The radiated heat from the bees can be detected through the thickness of the walls of the hive and there is no reason why it can't be reflected directly back into it.
 
That may apply in the case of foil used alone as a reflective barrier; if it is in contact with a warm surface it will conduct heat away and negate most of the benefits. But when attached to an insulating material such as polystyrene or even better, to PIR, the insulation behind it will resist conduction and the reflective qualities of the foil will still be useful. The radiated heat from the bees can be detected through the thickness of the walls of the hive and there is no reason why it can't be reflected directly back into it.

There is a practical limit in these tricks, and guys, you are not first humans, which want to reviele out those problems.

No sense to seach better and better if you have a good one.

If you have commecial polyboxes, you need only woodpecker protection. Self made polyboxes are waste of human work energy.

And forget those reflecting things.
 
I have used a foil covered slab of polystyrene set into a frame to act as a dummy board or follower board. The foil prevents chewing and the poly provides insulation for the cluster within the hive rather than cladding the outside of the hive. One must remember that cladding must be well sealed (not even a pinprick) as, if not and the rain gets in you end with a soggy mass which will not dry out fully as the wet may may run down to a non draining of the slab.
 
That may apply in the case of foil used alone as a reflective barrier; if it is in contact with a warm surface it will conduct heat away and negate most of the benefits. But when attached to an insulating material such as polystyrene or even better, to PIR, the insulation behind it will resist conduction and the reflective qualities of the foil will still be useful. The radiated heat from the bees can be detected through the thickness of the walls of the hive and there is no reason why it can't be reflected directly back into it.

I was told it looses most of its effectiveness if its not the exposed/outer surface. So the insulation properties of the foil will be negligible compared to the PIR/polly when installed in a hive roof. At least going on what I was told.

But your point about detecting radiated heat makes sense too. Going on that logic it would help to put it anywhere, as you say. But that's wrong, in the wrong place it can actually make things worse, particularly a thick layer of tin foil, rather than the thin foil on a proper sheet.

I agree with your point about what kind of surface its attached to, but I was only thinking in a context with other insulation.

One reason its more effective on the surface is because if its buried below insulation, then anything reflected would have to go through then back through the insulation, so will end up heating the wall/roof rather than being reflected.

In a sunlight scenario you must see how having the foil on the surface would reflect way more, and prevent the surface heating up. Radiated heat worked in a simlar way, but to a lesser extent as more passes through.

Then there is the conductivity factor to account for, this is where it can become counter productive.

This short vid explains it well. Most vids handling the subject were far too long bu this guy does a resonble job of explaining it in under 5m.




But as said before, its widely misunderstood and misused and thermal dynamics are are very complex subject.

A lot of these things are very situation dependent too, so unless you know the exact proportions of kinds of heat bees produce and a bunch of other data we dont have it will be hard to know for sure. But I think its pretty negligible once buried in a bee hive roof and its actually the polly/pir doing the work.

But I could be wrong!

Does anyone happen to have, two hives of simlar construction containing simlar sized colonies, a selection of insulation materials, some foil and a thermal camera?
 
All my crown boards this year are polycarbonate, (Apiarist). Which have an air gap, some 4mm others 10mm. I sealed up the ends with silicone, more to stop earwigs and ants from getting in. Is it worth doing them all? Am I losing heat though the air gap? I have a thermal camera from work. May take a look when it gets really cold.
 
All my crown boards this year are polycarbonate, (Apiarist). Which have an air gap, some 4mm others 10mm. I sealed up the ends with silicone, more to stop earwigs and ants from getting in. Is it worth doing them all? Am I losing heat though the air gap? I have a thermal camera from work. May take a look when it gets really cold.
You could just tape around the joins. A wrap or cosy sleeve helps with this and stops the entry of water. I think it's worth doing although some bees will apparently propolise the gaps....my bee's aren't usually keen on that.
 
All my crown boards this year are polycarbonate, (Apiarist). Which have an air gap, some 4mm others 10mm.
How has that happened?
How can you have a one cm gap?
I have polycarbonate crownboards and they sit perfectly on the box underneath. Something’s wrong
 
How has that happened?
How can you have a one cm gap?
I have polycarbonate crownboards and they sit perfectly on the box underneath. Something’s wrong
The polycarbonate is made with a gap. I suppose to add an air gap. My question is really, is this gap effective in a smaller area, 460cm square. How much heat is lost out of the sides without it being sealed. I have seen no mention of sealing up the ends.
 

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All my crown boards this year are polycarbonate, (Apiarist). Which have an air gap, some 4mm others 10mm.
The 'Apiarist' ones are single sheet polycarbonate, not the double walled type.
Just tape over the ends.
The polycarbonate is made with a gap. I suppose to add an air gap.
The double wall is mainly for strength.
 
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