Insulation: I don't get it!

[BeeJayBee]

I was summising that bees in warmer climates have adapted more to hot temps than ours, our climate is so up & down from one day to the next I thought they may find it harder in a hot summer when we don't get hot days that often.

A reason for sourcing bees locally, perhaps, rather than importing?

 

[midnight sun]

oliver if you are going to reply to my posts please don't be sarcastic as you have been on virtually every one of my threads. I sent you a couple of pm's last week, please read them, you might learn some new words.

I think what people are trying to say in as many words as possible is that bees are very adaptable to conditions. They have survived many extremes for millennia.
If the hive becomes too hot for them they forage for water and spread it about in the hive. Simply that due 'latent heat of vaporization' drawn from the structure to evaporate the water cools the hive. Just as sweat cools us.
There was an article, some time ago, that I saw (can't remember where) where a fire had started near some hives. One hive was charred on two sides but the bees were fine. They kept the temp. safe by 'fanning' and water evaporation according to the article. Now that's impressive! So don't worry about too much heat in this country. Damp in cold weather does far more harm.
Hope this makes sense. Regards Dave

 

[user 6228]

I was summising that bees in warmer climates have adapted more to hot temps than ours, our climate is so up & down from one day to the next I thought they may find it harder in a hot summer when we don't get hot days that often. My point was they would find it easier to regulate the hive temp if it is well insulated, seems like common sense to me but hey ho im new to this. Sometimes it takes new blood to bring in new ideas/thoughts when old hats cant see the wood for the trees, or should that be bee's?

The difficulty is that almost all knowledge of honeybees is in relatively uninsulated nests and a lot of surmise of what happens in a insulated nest is just that.
e.g. brood breaks. The surmise is that insulated bee wont have any brood breaks.

Our experience is the opposite. They seem to stop for interruptions in nectar flow, stop to clear sac brood, and around the winter solstice.
If anything our bees wil stop more often. These are just a few observations on a few nests, not a properly conducted study.

The North western European climate is driven by the frontal systems off the Atlantic. So we have very variable summers and winters but on average mild temperatures but severe heat loss weather occurs frequently. Average Winter light levels are lower than the latitude would suggest.

A honeybee that is more opportunist to exploit and then stop as the weather changes may be more likely to succeed in such a climate.

A less stressed nest has more freedom to stop brooding as well as brood in greater numbers. Maybe. The Physics of an insulated nest gives the honeybees this potential. Whether they do is up to the animal behavour specialists to find out, should they ever study bees in insulated nests.

 

[jonnybeegood]

I think what people are trying to say in as many words as possible is that bees are very adaptable to conditions. They have survived many extremes for millennia.
If the hive becomes too hot for them they forage for water and spread it about in the hive. Simply that due 'latent heat of vaporization' drawn from the structure to evaporate the water cools the hive. Just as sweat cools us.
There was an article, some time ago, that I saw (can't remember where) where a fire had started near some hives. One hive was charred on two sides but the bees were fine. They kept the temp. safe by 'fanning' and water evaporation according to the article. Now that's impressive! So don't worry about too much heat in this country. Damp in cold weather does far more harm.
Hope this makes sense. Regards Dave

cheers Dave, I read about frames collapsing in too much heat so thought surely this would also affect the bees, if it was hot enough for the frames to collapse then my thoughts were how would the bees cope in this, especially as there aren't really any properties of dry wood, as in wooden hives to keep it cool so I thought it could end up like an oven , over powering the bees ability to fan to keep it cool whereas poly insulation keeps things hot & cool much easier. I am learning, but wont learn unless I ask or question things, sorry folks if I seem to rabbit on but I want to take in as much as possible & some answers you don't find in books. cheers.

 

[midnight sun]

cheers Dave, I read about frames collapsing in too much heat so thought surely this would also affect the bees, if it was hot enough for the frames to collapse then my thoughts were how would the bees cope in this, especially as there aren't really any properties of dry wood, as in wooden hives to keep it cool so I thought it could end up like an oven , over powering the bees ability to fan to keep it cool whereas poly insulation keeps things hot & cool much easier. I am learning, but wont learn unless I ask or question things, sorry folks if I seem to rabbit on but I want to take in as much as possible & some answers you don't find in books. cheers.

You will find that this is probably the best bee forum there is. Unfortunately there is a price for the knowledge you seek. (as you have found out recently).
There are some very good keepers on this forum who will share their knowledge, but at a price. Some will poke fun at you, some will appear sarcastic and some may be quite rude (and smug). Most of it is not meant to be nasty. It's easy for some to forget that they had to learn at one time and probably more gradually in their day, as now beekeeping is a far bigger 'lake of knowledge' which you are expected to pick up in a short space of time it seems. I don't know your age but, you will no doubt be aware that teaching now, is different to the 'rule by fear' of 'yester-year' that many of the old beeks on here were brought up with and many younger members can't hack it. Just give as good as you get. If they can't take it, then they shouldn't hand it out, eh?
(Help, from a young, handsome guy, like me, has no cost LOL)
The longest journey starts with the first (dodgy) step!

 

[jonnybeegood]

You will find that this is probably the best bee forum there is. Unfortunately there is a price for the knowledge you seek. (as you have found out recently).
There are some very good keepers on this forum who will share their knowledge, but at a price. Some will poke fun at you, some will appear sarcastic and some may be quite rude (and smug). Most of it is not meant to be nasty. It's easy for some to forget that they had to learn at one time and probably more gradually in their day, as now beekeeping is a far bigger 'lake of knowledge' which you are expected to pick up in a short space of time it seems. I don't know your age but, you will no doubt be aware that teaching now, is different to the 'rule by fear' of 'yester-year' that many of the old beeks on here were brought up with and many younger members can't hack it. Just give as good as you get. If they can't take it, then they shouldn't hand it out, eh?
(Help, from a young, handsome guy, like me, has no cost LOL)
The longest journey starts with the first (dodgy) step!

Like! i can give as good as i get, i just dont want to get banned. Thanks

 

[oliver90owner]

i can give as good as i get, i just dont want to get banned. Thanks-

Then stop crying or threatening on unwanted and ignored PMs. Learn to post some sense, like where have you read about collapsing frames due to the weather in the UK? Don't include hives left in vehicles or where the beek has closed them up by accident or left due to inexperience.

'Summising', whatever that is, does little good without strong evidence. I don't think you will find any in the UK.

Prick, smart arse, ____ off all seem to indicate your level of literacy/intelligence, particularly via PMs. Perhaps you might just admit or apologise for to trying to pull the wool over forum members. 15 quid, was it, for a second hand book costing less when bought and delivered new! It is not me who is the ****! (Again, from one of your PMs). Just keep your low intelligence PMs to yourself, if you don't mind. I've come across many like you, before now.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Quite the master of the single entendre

 

[Finman]

The difficulty is that almost all knowledge of honeybees is in relatively uninsulated nests .

That is one interesting note.

This guys has over 1000 hives, and perhaps he does not know enough about beekeeping after 40 years.
http://beekeeping.honeypaw.fi/The-Company.php

Out temp in video is -25C.

The hive material seems to be ply walls+ insulation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltFEi07DTqM
.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

We should all use the ignore button more and I'll suggest to the admins that they force mutual ignores in certain circumstances as an alternative to a ban.

 

[jonnybeegood]

i can give as good as i get, i just dont want to get banned. Thanks-

Then stop crying or threatening on unwanted and ignored PMs. Learn to post some sense, like where have you read about collapsing frames due to the weather in the UK? Don't include hives left in vehicles or where the beek has closed them up by accident or left due to inexperience.

'Summising', whatever that is, does little good without strong evidence. I don't think you will find any in the UK.

Prick, smart arse, ____ off all seem to indicate your level of literacy/intelligence, particularly via PMs. Perhaps you might just admit or apologise for to trying to pull the wool over forum members. 15 quid, was it, for a second hand book costing less when bought and delivered new! It is not me who is the ****! (Again, from one of your PMs). Just keep your low intelligence PMs to yourself, if you don't mind. I've come across many like you, before now.

As I am an adult I have the sense to do things in private, not try to impress or make friends by posting about people on here, shame you cant do the same,
As you want to air it on here yes I called you some abusive names in pm, twice because you hadn't the decency to stop having sarcastic digs on all my threads, simply because I tried to sell a book for less than I bought it for? I had no idea it could be bought cheaper or I would have bought it at that price myself. If you want an argument on here then go for it, I have done nothing wrong but you being the bully type ( are you a teacher used to bullying kids by any chance?) seem to think otherwise. why should I be banned or ignored because you like to pick on people,. Let me tell you something, you don't pick on me fella!

 

[midnight sun]

That is one interesting note.

This guys has over 1000 hives, and perhaps he does not know enough about beekeeping after 40 years.
http://beekeeping.honeypaw.fi/The-Company.php

Out temp in video is -25C.

The hive material seems to be ply walls+ insulation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltFEi07DTqM
.

Very interesting video, not just to see keeping from another country and the conditions the bees can survive in, but the owner opened the hive for a 'quick look' at -25c. Now that is something that many over here say you shouldn't do. It does show however that although it may be best avoided if possible, no serious harm would come to the bees, or the owner just would not do it.
Another area of beekeeping that often is not agreed on.
(before anyone has a go, no, I don't open mine in winter for no good reason )

 

[jonnybeegood]

We should all use the ignore button more and I'll suggest to the admins that they force mutual ignores in certain circumstances as an alternative to a ban.

?? sorry if I have offended you, I didn't realise there were children on here, if i'm right judging by your post.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Cut out the nastiness to each other ....you two, or three.

 

[TOBY-3652]

Cut out the nastiness to each other ....you two, or three.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Cut out the nastiness to each other ....you two, or three.

apologies hivemaker

 

[user 6228]

That is one interesting note.

This guys has over 1000 hives, and perhaps he does not know enough about beekeeping after 40 years.
http://beekeeping.honeypaw.fi/The-Company.php

Out temp in video is -25C.

The hive material seems to be ply walls+ insulation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltFEi07DTqM
.

.. How many peer reveiwed papers have been conducted in such hives?

I have measured those hives for thermal conductance. I know how much heat they lose and have measured data on how they differ from tree nests.
I even have two of those but I only use them in summer.

 

[Finman]

Very interesting video, not just to see keeping from another country and the conditions the bees can survive in, but the owner opened the hive for a 'quick look' at -25c. :)

He opened it only for video, what is inside. It has no other meaning.

It was a show, not a quick looking.

 

[farbee]

...are you a teacher used to bullying kids by any chance?

I fine the implication of this comment insulting and very offensive to those of use married to teachers (or are teacher themselves).

 

[Apple]

...are you a teacher used to bullying kids by any chance?

I fine the implication of this comment insulting and very offensive to those of use married to teachers (or are teacher themselves).

I can only agree, more than offensive, insulting!


James