Import of NZ bees into UK

[greatbritishhoney]

The coop are doing there best,just read this on there web site.

No-one knows for certain what is causing bee losses. Explanations include: bad weather, pesticides, importing of non-native bee species, viruses and a mite called Varroa.

Haha - no doubt there will be a carefully worded way of skirting round that one.

 

[Crg]

As I have said previously, I am sure it is. I think it is the ethics of the whole project that have an unwanted aroma of under the table, no consultation, do it anyway, business.

Ethics?

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Also on their website.....

"The Co-operative Food will continue with its temporary prohibition on the use of six of the neonicotinoid pesticides on own-brand fresh and frozen produce, which was introduced in 2009.[1]

[1] In April 2010, in light of evidence that two of the neonicotinoids, acetamiprid and thiacloprid, are lower risk to bees these have been moved from prohibited to monitored status in the pesticides policy"

So, it appears that as well as importing queens they are using 2 neonicotinoid pesticides. It all gets murkier and murkier doesn't it?

 

[oliver90owner]

I'm getting pm after pm from crg now. I think he is a bit miffed or something. Maybe it was his idea to try to stifle forum discussion by creating 'off-forum discussion' instead. (It is a common ploy. Used to call it 'divide and rule' in the old days.)

Presumably he will get fed up when he realises it cuts no ice with me.

importing of non-native bee species

Wow, Hivemaker, it says that! Hows about that for 'speaking with a forked tongue'!

If the press get hold of that they will have a field day!

RAB

 

[peteinwilts]

other than the fact neither the Co-op nor myself were aware of Ron Hoskins.

Plan Bee is operated by a different section of the overall organisation.

I would be suprised if Plan B were not aware of Rons work. It was in the prime media a great deal last year.
If they have not, they are not worth the webspace they occupy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/25/honeybees-virus-superbee-saviour-swindon

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...s-breeds-indestructible-bee-protect-mite.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardenin...-claims-to-have-bred-indestructible-bees.html

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/838981-british-beekeepers-parasite-resistant-bee-could-save-the-world

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-11089792

I can go on...the list IS endless!... he was also on TV! (most channels!)

Is Plan B a part of CO-OP as an organisation?? (as suggested above) and if so, do the CO-OP not use them for consulting? If not, have they not heard of them?

If Plan B IS a part of the CO-OP, the CO-OP WAS aware of Ron. I simply cannot believe Plan B has not heard of Ron and his work.

I only have a few hives, and are scattered in different locations. Two of the locations are only 1km apart, but is still technically a remote location... as is another site 4 miles away.
Technically remote can be a few hundred yards to several thousand miles.

Originally it was suggested there were x00 at the Down Ampney site and x00 in Hererfordshire
Can you give a rough location of where the sites are? (particularly as the number 40 has been suggested, meaning there will be hundreds in other close locations).
This is not an argumentative question, only a local beekeeper that wants to understand the facts.

 

[peteinwilts]

I'm getting pm after pm from crg now. I think he is a bit miffed or something. Maybe it was his idea to try to stifle forum discussion by creating 'off-forum discussion' instead. (It is a common ploy. Used to call it 'divide and rule' in the old days.)

Another aroma of things trying to be kept under the table!

why not keep things in the open where they belong!

 

[Hivemaker.]

If the press get hold of that they will have a field day!


I doubt it,unless they can find anyone who knows what is going on...which will most likely be the guy that drives the shopping trolley juggernaut...the one Lee Evans would call Malcombe.

 

[dilys]

They might try to use the word "species" as a get-out. We all know hey meant "races" but species could mean bumblebees for pollinating tomatoes.

I think the longer they persist with all this the more crooked and manipulative they will appear.

 

[Into the lions den]

Sorry admin,
And now danbee thinks the PM was innocuous. He is naive, me thinks - or trying to minimise the intended ramping up of the heat.

RAB

You may be as rude and sharp as you wish to be with me. Your call. Heat I can take. I am sure of my ground on this. I will not respond in kind.

Fwiw, though it is a management detail I need not reveal, all queens in our entire operations, self owned and Co-op, are clipped and marked, and we operate a rigid 9/10 day cycle. Your question about the 'excessive' swarming I answered already AND you pasted it in your quote, although the original fuller answer got lost in the apparently chopped post that only half of appeared. Added up to the same anyway.

By the time the bees went to the heather, 4 other colonies had started queen cells and were split, all from one location. There was a really potent clover flow and they filled and almost sealed a full Langstroth deep from foundation in about 5 days and got congested. The splits with the cells were moved off site for easy supervision as I was really interested in their progress. The young queens crossed with locals on the mating site and are looking super. Not nasty at all. Once at the heather we run on an unlimited brood nest with no excluders in place and swarming ceases.

( An aside here, dealing with a point raised by scutellator......we do operate a breeding programme from selected stock of our own, whatever bees are best, and there are ALWAYS at least 12, sometimes as many as 20, mature colonies, selected under the same criteria as the queen mothers, kept beside the mating site to ensure plentiful supply of our own drones. Apiary vicinity mating is very prevalent with the black types and we get good outcomes. Any less than 12 and the focus can be on too narrow a gene base. We also only allow ONE graft from any single mother queen, so in practice no more than 24 queens (usually a good bit less) will be raised from a maximum take of 32 cells. Spread over 2000 colonies this ensures no lack of diversity.)

The 300 packages are in one year, and being divided in two once here with an extra queen (hence the 600 figure), but represent only a small fraction of the supplies coming in. Consignments of similar and larger size are arriving as well, mostly going to beekeepers in southern and eastern England. Numbers communicated to me by two shippers alone runs to 3124 units. ( 6 loads of 400, one airline pallet of 704 ) I know SOME of the destinations. There are many shippers.

Oh, and the PM was innocuous. It was personal and sent to you only. Same personal respect was afforded to the other few.

 

[Into the lions den]

They might try to use the word "species" as a get-out. We all know hey meant "races" but species could mean bumblebees for pollinating tomatoes.
.

They meant nothing of the sort. The statement long predates this venture and means exactly what is said.

 

[Into the lions den]

Clarification of previous post. All the packages, bar the 704, which are nothing to do with me, are arriving queenless, to have queens added by their various purchasers on arrival. The 704 arrive from NZ with queens included.

 

[oliver90owner]

Same personal respect was afforded to the other few.

I expect it was. Mine did not have my name on it. There are near 5000 members of the forum (I believe), so 'few' could be relative in that context; I am expecting it represented quite a large proportion of the 'vociferous dissenting posters'.

 

[Into the lions den]

I wondered when we'd get to that stage.

Its actually not that important. Landowners own the sites, not the beekeepers. We only have security of tenure so long as the landowner is happy. For reasons that are between them and the previous incumbent, the Co-op were not happy.

Some you win, some you lose. I have lost sites under similar circumstances elsewhere. I move on and continue life.

 

[Into the lions den]

Same personal respect was afforded to the other few.
I expect it was. Mine did not have my name on it. There are near 5000 members of the forum (I believe), so 'few' could be relative in that context; I am expecting it represented quite a large proportion of the 'vociferous dissenting posters'.

Actually it was five people. Each were personal. It did not have your name on it as it was a PM, sent only to you. I do not actually expct PM's sent to me to go through any formalities. Ask the rest direct of those you designate as 'vociferous dissenting' if you wish. It was across a range of opinions.

I am bowing out for tonight now. Girlfriend has prepared dinner and if I do not go to her house and join her for it I guess I might suffer the late summer drone fate...........

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Some you win, some you lose. I have lost sites under similar circumstances elsewhere. I move on and continue life.

The point I was trying to make is that when their is no agreement it always ends with the most powerful party saying "b****r you" to everyone else. The local beekeeprs in the area don't have the luxury of being able to move on as you will whether the project is a success or not.

 

[Crg]

I'm getting pm after pm from crg now. I think he is a bit miffed or something.

That's a very odd thing to think.

There was nothing to make me "miffed", and I'm not the type who does get "miffed".

The whole world isn't conspiring to get you, PMs are good for not distracting from the main topic/s of the thread with post like this. Nothing to do with any "divide and rule" nonsense.

 

[DanBee]

So, it appears that as well as importing queens they are using 2 neonicotinoid pesticides. It all gets murkier and murkier doesn't it?

I heard that somebody who once worked for Bayer is a Coop member. Maybe that explains their position on neonicotinoids?

 

[RoofTops]

At this point on the other site certain folk would be banned and they would go off in a huff and set up their own forum.

I seem to recall a saying - "what goes around comes around..."

No idea what it means but it sound appropriate.

It's only beekeeping guys. This thread is getting silly.

 

[TOBY-3652]

I agree

 

[Poly Hive]

I must admit I am getting confused here.

I thought Murray stated that the bees he was putting in for the Coop were/are to be a NZ queen of Alpine origin plus a package of Scottish bees.

However I am now reading that there are to be NZ packages or am I just confused Murray?

Clarification please for a fog of fatigue?

(Had to move all the hives tonight)

PH