Import of NZ bees into UK

[nonstandard]

A

It's only beekeeping guys. This thread is getting silly.

I agree, it's the first time I have looked in on this thread for about a week and having just read the last ten posts or so I feel it will be a while before I'm back.

 

[BKF Admin]

Do members think this thread now belongs in the political issues section?

 

[peteinwilts]

I agree

I disagree... cutting through the bickering of the few, there has been some very interesting points brought up, and is a very interesting debate.

There is a number of people firmly to the left, a number of people firmly to the right and many in the middle that need to make their own decisions.

With ITLD braving entering the forum and facing the music, and also being graced with the presence of Swinbee, it seems clear to me there are a small number distict issues.

The first is ITLD issue where there are not enough British queens, that produce well that can have members of the public stroke and cuddle them.
This is likely to be the same with any public facing beefarmer.

The second is ITLD has brought out into the open a number of dodgy practices bringing foreign bees into the country to satistfy UK needs. Anyone that adheres to these illegal practices should be spat on and kicked in the street. (and be ashamed of themselves!) There is a fair chance that someone on the forum does, or knows someone that does knowingly dodgy practices for a fast buck. Hopefully most are on the 'other' forum!

The third is Ron's resources. He has a potentially groundbreaking method that may help rid Varroa from our hives without dosing them with chemicals. If this is successful, Britain could lead the world in Varroa control.
If gentle, productive and 'clean' bees can be produced by selective breeding in the UK, with these traits, there will be no need to bring in dodgy imports or any other import.... if anything, we could be exporting. (and let foreign forums have a debate like this!)
Varroa has become a curse in the UK in less than 20 years. If Ron's bees are as good as they might be, varroa could be turned around in the next 20, and if it does happen, I hope Ron is still around with us to see it.

 

[onriver]

Admin - from my perspective I'd say no - its been fascinating for us newer beekeepers and has thrown a spotlight on lots of areas of beekeeping I wasn't aware of - a sidelining to another section would reduce that benefit. Have to say I don't like the vitriol and the way every comment from ITLD is clinically dissected - fine to expose flaws in an argument (and often illuminating) but it seems to be getting very personal and in the way of a forward looking exchange of views.

 

[BKF Admin]

I agree Onriver that some posts have become a little personal.
If any members are offended with what they read please use the report post button.

Its very difficult to find level ground in a thread like this,I try not to step in to much as we are all adults and should be using self moderation before hitting the "post" button.

Its been a very emotional thread at times and I am pleased how many members have acted so far,this thread could of so easy exploded on itself.

Thanks to everyone who has followed the forum rules,and a medal for everyone who has read every post

 

[onriver]

I'm first to claim that medal

 

[TBRNoTB]

Do members think this thread now belongs in the political issues section?

Surely if after a few reads of the thread it's not to your liking, its one click you don't make? Just leave it ticking over
Regards
TBRNoTB

 

[Hombre]

I think that anyone reading all of this and keeping pace is probably going blind about now.

NonStandard has got word blindness already, it seems, and more than a few people are going to experience RSI with all the keyboard input they have produced thus far.

If I can ask but two questions, but both are rhetorical(¿).

How many of us have bought bees that were known to have been directly or indirectly (next generation) from imported stock and would a poll give us a truly representative figure¿

I bought my first bees from Easy Bee and I have the Carniolan running shoes to prove it. Ordered before my first contact with the bee keeping fraternity, but I have no qualms about it and am patently not alone in this.

How many of us would think of advertising our business plans on an open forum¿
Business by definition is successful because the competition doesn't know exactly what you are thinking before you do it.

Even our sequined hero had Carniolan bees last summer.

 

[Tom Bick]

I must admit I am getting confused here.

I thought Murray stated that the bees he was putting in for the Coop were/are to be a NZ queen of Alpine origin plus a package of Scottish bees.

However I am now reading that there are to be NZ packages or am I just confused Murray?

Clarification please for a fog of fatigue?

(Had to move all the hives tonight)

PH

As with PH confused it seems that NZ imported packages are back on the agenda after been told that its only queen imports?

 

[Somerford]

I for one am pleased this thread has remained in the General Beekeeping section - it means more beeks are likely to read it, and also comment on it. I have had a number (understatement of the year) PMs, all positive. I would request that any personal 'arguements' remain in PM where possible as it will deviate from the thread.

I will add more tonight as my blackberry is a pain to write on...but my main concern is the SILENCE from the Co-Op on all this.

Time ti ramp it up a gear methinks.....

S

 

[Into the lions den]

As with PH confused it seems that NZ imported packages are back on the agenda after been told that its only queen imports?

Not so for this project. It only involves QUEENS from New Zealand.

The reason NZ packages have come back into the conversation is due to me giving an overview of the imports from a couple of shippers this spring that I KNOW of. There will be many more that I do not know of. One airline pallet, 704, full NZ packages are coming in to destinations apparently in southern central England.

This does not bother ME greatly as the quality and health status of these bees is unrivalled, and indeed I was involved in such a pallet into Scotland last year.
A more professional and flawless operation you could never see. The New Zealand shipper even flew over himself to see that his bees were correctly cared for throughout and installed properly.

 

[Poly Hive]

Thanks for the clarification.

Bit weary last night after moving bees because the farmer has suddenly got issues.

PH

 

[Into the lions den]

but my main concern is the SILENCE from the Co-Op on all this.

Time ti ramp it up a gear methinks.....

S

Just who do you want to make a statement? They have not been completely silent, but there is really no one person in the Co-op actually suitably qualified to give the responses I can give you.

I am their partner in this and your point of contact. Me being here answering questions and telling what is going on is not 'silence'.

It serves no purpose other than make a small number of people happy for some person from the marketing dept to come online, with a modest knowledge of beekeeping, and have certain parties tear them to pieces.

FWIW, despite your mailbox being full of positives, I too have had more positive messages than negative, and more requests for queens, (even from closer to Swindon than Down Ampney), than the sum total of negative posters on the forum. Probably an example of why a straw poll of your own inbox, both yours and mines, is irrelevant. These things often reflect the writers opinion and come from friends and supporters.

Ramp it up? OK, you will probably just get more of me. The media actually DO tend to check things out, so factual accuracy is important should you want to go down that line. Most of what you have stated is easily rebutted and the two approaches from the media on the basis of contacts already made by some of you (do not know who) have foundered on this issue.

On a personal side, please get in touch with PeteinWilts. If you are concerned about proximity to your own bees you can both, together or seperately ask me for answers. For reasons he knows I cannot now give out accurate siting information on forum, but can tell anyone if any of the bees will be nearby their units. You may PM me on this issue if you wish. He has vouched for your character and I am happy to accept that and speak to you. No-one is trying to split anyone off and there is nothing sinister in trying to allay fears and integrate with the local set up.

If anyone wants to talk to me face to face I will probably be briefly on site down there back end of next week or perhaps that weekend.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

ITLD, as the Co-op's representative on the forum could you clarify whether Neonics are used on any of the sites where you will be siting the bees?

 

[dilys]

Perhaps ITLD can also confirm that the Co-op are happy that plan bee includes the importation of hundreds of queens.

 

[peteinwilts]

has everyone else recieved a repeat email of what was blanketed by Plan B sent on the 4th March?

 

[Into the lions den]

ITLD, as the Co-op's representative on the forum could you clarify whether Neonics are used on any of the sites where you will be siting the bees?

Quickie as I grab lunch on the hoof.

Not actually qualified to answer a question best addressed to farm managers.

From my own conversations the answer has to be 'I believe not'. None of them were mentioned in the pest control regime for the two crops of interest to me, OSR and beans.

Not all that fussed anyway as we have had exposure to those before with precisely zero apparent effect, colonies on such fields did just as well as those not.

Those Co-op farms I go to already are all conventional farms, not organic, and chemical useage is normal, though kept to a sensible minimum.

 

[Into the lions den]

Perhaps ITLD can also confirm that the Co-op are happy that plan bee includes the importation of hundreds of queens.

The issue has been reviewed at high level quite some time ago. They are not of the opinion that this project is inconsistent with the goals of Plan Bee, and can indeed supplement it by getting non beekeepers interested and then its over to you guys to take them under your wing in your association apiaries, and train them up and give them their first bees, of whatever strain you choose.

This project is part of Co-op Farms, who are only loosely bound into the structure, and sell their produce on the open market, often not to the Co-op at all. ( The Tillington manager says 90% of their produce goes to Tesco)

Plan Bee is a laudible and generous gesture that they need not have made, and those I have talked to with links to that project are genuine and excited by it.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Interesting that the Plan Bee website makes a big fuss about lobbying government for a review of neonic use (whilst using these pesticides themselves) yet, as a beekeeper, you (ITLD) are not worried about thier use on crops that your bees will pollinate. I'd be worried if it was my bees.

I'm not sure how many faces it is possible for the co-op to have on this issue.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Also interesting that the "Pro" camp in this debate are happy to use Plan Bee as an example of how great the co-op are yet, when pesticides are mentioned, we get the rather slippery reply that they are different parts of a loosely connected organisation. You can't have it both ways.