How much varroa drop expected with oxalic acid sublimationn?

[Sutty]

I restarted beekeeping last year after a 20+ years break.
I am new at monitoring & treating varroa.
OA sublination seemed like a sensible treatment so I got a Gas-Vap and apibioxal and treated as instructed in mid January.
For a previously essentially feral, untreated colony (which swarmed last year - one is the parent colony, one a cast), what sort of mite drop would you expect over the subsequent couple of days??

 

[Nige.Coll]

If there is a lot of phoretic varroa the drop will be large.
If there aren't many varroa or they are protected the drop will be small.

 

[Sutty]

If there is a lot of phoretic varroa the drop will be large.
If there aren't many varroa or they are protected the drop will be small.

I realise small Vs large, but no real idea how many each is! 5, 30, 100, 1000?
For the average hive which has varroa.

 

[GuyNir]

Don’t think this can be answered, sorry. Too many unknowns. Colony size, infestation level, sealed brood status, treatment quality are just a few of those unknowns.

 

[Hachi]

Do the math the other way. Go onto Beebase and use their calculator

 

[Sutty]

Just thought Someone on here would have counted after OA sublimation to give me a ball-park figure of what to expect.
Maybe no-one uses it, or no-one who does counts mite drop.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just thought Someone on here would have counted after OA sublimation to give me a ball-park figure of what to expect.
Maybe no-one uses it, or no-one who does counts mite drop.

Nigel has pointed out the variables.
In late summer I can have a 24 hour drop of 100 or 20. I once had 8 thousand in 6 weeks. This winter my drops were between 20 and zero.

 

[Sutty]

Nigel has pointed out the variables.
In late summer I can have a 24 hour drop of 100 or 20. I once had 8 thousand in 6 weeks. This winter my drops were between 20 and zero.

Thanks, that's helpful

 

[Finman]

, what sort of mite drop would you expect over the subsequent couple of days??

There is no such number like expected. Mites start to drop after couple of days and it continues 4 weeks. Biggest drop is after week or two.

In summer mites propagate itself 100% in a month. If you have 10 mites in February, you will have 1000 in September.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The beebase varroa calculator is pointless when applied to a drop after treatment as the calculations are based on natural mite mortality.
Not that using it for natural drop is much use anyway

 

[Ringlander]

Hi Sutty, I had a similar problem to you when starting out, like you I wanted numbers even if they are of limited use when there are so many variables.... If it helps search out the long thread titled Varroa Alert started on the the December last year. It wanders all over the place but includes a lot of information and opinions (both ways of course) about oxalic acid and other treatments (including prayer...) but towards the end of it is a chart I produced showing the numbers that I recorded when treating my three apparently eavily infested hives. A series of OA vapings finally got the numbers down to what seemed OK to me and the bees have come through the winter OK, so far at least. Good luck!

 

[Sutty]

T

Hi Sutty, I had a similar problem to you when starting out, like you I wanted numbers even if they are of limited use when there are so many variables.... If it helps search out the long thread titled Varroa Alert started on the the December last year. It wanders all over the place but includes a lot of information and opinions (both ways of course) about oxalic acid and other treatments (including prayer...) but towards the end of it is a chart I produced showing the numbers that I recorded when treating my three apparently eavily infested hives. A series of OA vapings finally got the numbers down to what seemed OK to me and the bees have come through the winter OK, so far at least. Good luck!

Thanks for that, I'll dig out the thread

 

[Arfermo]

I realise small Vs large, but no real idea how many each is! 5, 30, 100, 1000?
For the average hive which has varroa.

What is that adage about a piece of string? 50 thousand answers and a few more!!

 

[Murox]

What is that adage about a piece of string? 50 thousand answers and a few more!!

Trouble is the length of a piece of string remains static ~ it's always twice its length from the middle to one end.

 

[oliver90owner]

One thing I would not be doing is vaping in the middle of January. Varroa should be reduced to a minimum before the winter bees are produced. If that is accomplished, the winter bees will be far healthier and varroa will remain at a minimum until spring brooding begins.

The usual mid-winter disturbance was for oxalic trickling. Too late and too intrusive at a time when the bees should be clustered and surviving the winter with healthy bees. I’ve not treated for varroa, during the winter months, for the the last 15 years of more.

 

[Sutty]

One thing I would not be doing is vaping in the middle of January. Varroa should be reduced to a minimum before the winter bees are produced. If that is accomplished, the winter bees will be far healthier and varroa will remain at a minimum until spring brooding begins.

The usual mid-winter disturbance was for oxalic trickling. Too late and too intrusive at a time when the bees should be clustered and surviving the winter with healthy bees. I’ve not treated for varroa, during the winter months, for the the last 15 years of more.

A matter of doing the research, getting the kit, etc.
I did wait for a warm day with flying bees, so the cluster would at least be less dense or broken up.
I'll treat earlier next time (assuming needed).
Only got a drop of 12-15 per colony in 1st 24hrs and very few after that (small colonies though).

 

[polymath]

One thing I would not be doing is vaping in the middle of January. Varroa should be reduced to a minimum before the winter bees are produced. If that is accomplished, the winter bees will be far healthier and varroa will remain at a minimum until spring brooding begins.

The usual mid-winter disturbance was for oxalic trickling. Too late and too intrusive at a time when the bees should be clustered and surviving the winter with healthy bees. I’ve not treated for varroa, during the winter months, for the the last 15 years of more.

Always treated in the winter, in fact research by LASI shows that broodless period is generally mid Dec, aka shortest days. I vapourize then as it has a 97%+ efficacy. That is not to say that relevant colonies are also not treated September pre Winter bees. But as oxalic is the cheapest treatment on the market I also like to use that on all.

 

[Murox]

One thing I would not be doing is vaping in the middle of January. Varroa should be reduced to a minimum before the winter bees are produced. If that is accomplished, the winter bees will be far healthier and varroa will remain at a minimum until spring brooding begins.

The usual mid-winter disturbance was for oxalic trickling. Too late and too intrusive at a time when the bees should be clustered and surviving the winter with healthy bees. I’ve not treated for varroa, during the winter months, for the the last 15 years of more.

Spot on, up here I begin winter preparations sometime in August mostly, it does vary a little with the prevailing weather and later forage. Normally by the middle to end of September they are getting treated for varroa if needed.

 

[Erichalfbee]

research by LASI shows that broodless period is generally mid Dec, aka shortest days.

Yes for that area of Sussex

 

[Hachi]

I don't count, I treat. Counting for me is a complete waste of time.