How long to feed for?

[AndreaW]

Okay I know I feed now and keep feeding until they no longer take anymore - just interested in how long that will take. I have been feeding with an Ashforth feeder for just over a week now and they are taking 2:1 syrup with great enthusiasm, already given them about 40lbs worth that they have taken down to store. One of my mentors said they would need about 50lbs and I have given them over that to date in the feeder (they have about 16lbs worth in feeder tonight). Her majesty seems to be slowing down on the laying at last and stores are beginning to go into the brood box, I am on brood and a half now, last week there was pretty much only brood and hatched brood in the brood box.

Will they just keep on going, or will they ever slow down?

 

[For want of a better word]

If you were running Nationals surely 20 kg would suffice...... on Commercials ?

 

[beebreeder]

Don't forget that the weights are for stored food, that is with the water evaporated off by the bees, not the weight hat you have put in the feeders.
kev

 

[Finman]

.
It depends how much they allready have food there and how much they have brood.

When i feed hives, they have quite few brood and they fill the hive in one week.
We are here in a hurry to feed hives full but in Britain hives rear wintering bees.

Take a brake in feeding. And continue later.

Look inside the hive what is happening there. How many brood frames and how much food.

If you prolong feeding, they continue brooding.

 

[The Apprentices]

Okay I know I feed now and keep feeding until they no longer take anymore - just interested in how long that will take. I have been feeding with an Ashforth feeder for just over a week now and they are taking 2:1 syrup with great enthusiasm, already given them about 40lbs worth that they have taken down to store. One of my mentors said they would need about 50lbs and I have given them over that to date in the feeder (they have about 16lbs worth in feeder tonight). Her majesty seems to be slowing down on the laying at last and stores are beginning to go into the brood box, I am on brood and a half now, last week there was pretty much only brood and hatched brood in the brood box.

Will they just keep on going, or will they ever slow down?

They say that feed them for as long as they are taking it, here is a snippet of a recent preparing for winter day out at our local meeting.

What a colony needs to overwinter.

A full colony requires a minimum of 16kg of honey stores
1BS frame (i.e. National Brood Fame) holds 2.25kg of honey if filled on boh sides.

Assessing the bees stores.

16/2.25 = 7 full fames to make up the required stores (approx).
Count the number of frames full of stores or estimate the equivalent Muliply by 2.25 to find the amount of honey present.

E.g. equivalent of 4 frames present, so 4 x 2.25 = 9kg
16kg -9kg = a shorfall of 7kg of honey.

Honey is 80% sugar so 7kg of honey is 7 x 80/100 =5.6 kg of sugar.

How much sugar?
In the example above we need 5.6kg of sugar.

How much syrup?

It is difficult to dissolve a high concentration of granlated sugar (sucrose) so we make a weaker solution and let the bee reduce the water content, a realistic sucrose solution is 61% sugar made up by:

Dissolve 1kg (1000g) of sugar in 630ml of boiling water - as 1 litre of water (1000ml) weighs 1kg (1000g) remember the measurements of weight and volume are equivalent.

Total to mix is 1000g water plus 630g of sugar.

% sugar = 1000 x 100/630 = 61%

To provide 5.6 kg sugar@ 61% we need

5.6/61 x 100 = 9 litres of syrup.

To generalise

a. Number of full frames ( or equivalent) =
b. a x 2.25 =
c. Shortfall = 16kg minus b =
d. SugaR (kg) required = c x 80/100.

Hope that helps.

 

[tonybloke]

Dissolve 1kg (1000g) of sugar in 630ml of boiling water - as 1 litre of water (1000ml) weighs 1kg (1000g) remember the measurements of weight and volume are equivalent.

Most beekeepers mix 1Kg per 500ml = 2 -1 mix for winter stores = less work evaporating syrup for the bees.
rgds, Tony

 

[The Apprentices]

Most beekeepers mix 1Kg per 500ml = 2 -1 mix for winter stores = less work evaporating syrup for the bees.
rgds, Tony

The beek on the day was also a biologist and mentioned that the bees need a certain amount of liquid water in the feed to process the food properly and that the 61% was a happy medium, remember they are also eating other food stuffs and need liquid to do this, the best of course is honey which has a. certain amount of water in it.

When we feed them we are doing so because they cannot normally get out to drink when the weather is jot so unfavourable, so the balance going in needs to be more favourable, not simply down to packing in as much as one can.

Its sort of like having too much salt and not enough liquid to make the process work propely, like lots of diuretics in cola that makes you drink more.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Total to mix is 1000g water plus 630g of sugar.

% sugar = 1000 x 100/630 = 61%


The correct equation is 630/1000 + 630 X 1000 giving 38.7% surely?

The more usual 1000g water and 2000g sugar gives 66.6% still less than honey which is 80%ish

 

[dpearce4]

Total to mix is 1000g water plus 630g of sugar.

% sugar = 1000 x 100/630 = 61%


The correct equation is 630/1000 + 630 X 1000 giving 38.7% surely?

The more usual 1000g water and 2000g sugar gives 66.6% still less than honey which is 80%ish

I had no idea when i started beekeeping i wound need a degree in maths. this is so way over my head. lol lol lol

is it 2kg sugar to 1ltr of water, or 1kg sugar to 630ml, equivilant rates?

i remeber at a meeting earlier this year i was told the 1kg:630ml could be used all year as a good imbetween is this right? cover all bases

 

[The Apprentices]

I had no idea when i started beekeeping i wound need a degree in maths. this is so way over my head. lol lol lol

is it 2kg sugar to 1ltr of water, or 1kg sugar to 630ml, equivilant rates?

i remeber at a meeting earlier this year i was told the 1kg:630ml could be used all year as a good imbetween is this right? cover all bases

Yep that's about it

I checked the leaflet again and that is how he wrote it down.

1Kg to 630ml water.

I use 1 to 1 mix.

He did say that 61% was about as much sugar as you could Physically dilute into water.

 

[huntsman666]

I simply put the sugar (2kg) into a flat bottomed pot (I use an old pressure cooker) and level the sugar. Then I pour in boiling water and stir until the new level is about an inch above that of the sugar alone. Gives roughly 2:1 syrup.

Helps to heat the pot beforehand and you can always put it back on the cooker to help disolve the sugar.

Easy-peasy!

 

[AndreaW]

Great for all you metric people but I am working in lbs and pints I'll work it out later. Thanks for all the maths - love it. I am currently doing 2lbs sugar to 1 pint water if that helps anyone

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Great for all you metric people but I am working in lbs and pints I'll work it out later. Thanks for all the maths - love it. I am currently doing 2lbs sugar to 1 pint water if that helps anyone

Thats fine

 

[Gardenbees]

Oh my - talk about higher maths!
I have an old glass measuring jug. I don't weigh the sugar, just use the jug.
1 jugful of sugar to 1 jugful of water for autumn feed/stores, and
1 jug of sugar to 2 jugs of water for spring/nectar equivalent feeding (except that I never normally do that unless there's a bad spring, June gap or something).

 

[alanf]

Dissolve 1kg (1000g) of sugar in 630ml of boiling water - as 1 litre of water (1000ml) weighs 1kg (1000g) remember the measurements of weight and volume are equivalent.

Total to mix is 1000g water plus 630g of sugar.

% sugar = 1000 x 100/630 = 61%

Agree with most of the calculations but those numbers don't work. 1Kg of sugar in 630ml of water is a total mix of 1000g sugar plus 630g of water. The mix totals 1,630g so divide the sugar into the total and multiply by 100 to get a percentage by weight:

(1000/1630) * 100 = 61%

 

[AndreaW]

Agree with most of the calculations but those numbers don't work. 1Kg of sugar in 630ml of water is a total mix of 1000g sugar plus 630g of water. The mix totals 1,630g so divide the sugar into the total and multiply by 100 to get a percentage by weight:

(1000/1630) * 100 = 61%

Oh I so need to sit down with this when kids have gone to bed - I am a complete maths nut

 

[AndreaW]

So should I keep feeding until they stop taking the syrup? I am now panicing as they are taking in lots of pollen and there have been various threads on late swarming on here lately. Now panicing that I have been feeding two quickly, topping up every other day as they were taking it. The apiguard hasn't put them off at all. There did seem to be less brood when I inspected on Saturday but didn't want to open them up too much as it was starting to rain - couldn't look at anything on Sunday as they were so irritable (apiguard?).

They do seem to be all over the front of the hive, but someone said that isn't unusual with apiguard - I have just put the second tray in! Maybe they are enjoying the sunshine as it is glorious but windy here today!

Help, comments please in an encouraging way as I am panicing I am getting this all wrong

 

[For want of a better word]

Don't Panic




Bar pouring petrol on them they will sort themselves out!​

​

 

[Davelin]

So should I keep feeding until they stop taking the syrup? I am now panicing as they are taking in lots of pollen and there have been various threads on late swarming on here lately. Now panicing that I have been feeding two quickly, topping up every other day as they were taking it. The apiguard hasn't put them off at all. There did seem to be less brood when I inspected on Saturday but didn't want to open them up too much as it was starting to rain - couldn't look at anything on Sunday as they were so irritable (apiguard?).

They do seem to be all over the front of the hive, but someone said that isn't unusual with apiguard - I have just put the second tray in! Maybe they are enjoying the sunshine as it is glorious but windy here today!

Help, comments please in an encouraging way as I am panicing I am getting this all wrong

I think you are better off topping up your feeder regularly than letting it run dry which is what I did. they were crawling with bees finding the last dregs today and it took me half an hour this afternoon to get most of the bees out of them, (they are home made miller type) and they weren't very happy.
I have got about another 5kg per hive to go I reckon and I shall top that up tomorrow afternoon. They also have apiguard on. I reckon they should be jolly grateful I am doing so much for them. I am sure you are doing fine and we will make it through the winter.

 

[CB008]

No panic on the pollen. Round our way the ivy has just come out and the bees are loaded with yellow saddle bags. They will actaully forage into October quite happily. I am feeding syrup slowly so that they mix it with th eivy nectar but this week will be stepping up the feeding a bit.