How do i introduce a new queen ?

[Bcrazy]

I wish to introduce a new queen to a big colony but as yet i have not found the resident queen. I have carried out the tried and tested methods of locating and separating the resident queen from the colony but have not succeeded in isolating her, which brings me to the conclusion that she is the same size as the workers or even smaller. She is a prolific layer as there are 8 frames of packed brood.
How do i introduce the new queen to the colony without the two queens having to fight till the death of one of them? ( What happens if the resident queen kills off the new introduced queen then i am no better off than i was at the begining of the exercise).

How would you tackle the problem?

Thank you

Mo.

 

[Finman]

.

1# You devide the hive into two parts.
That which has not queen, will become nervous and start to make emergency cell. So there you have queenles hive.

2# Make a false swarm. Move the original hive.
Then you will have queenless hive, - unless the queen is a virgin.
Virgin flyes very often outside and knows the hive site.

(you old fart know the right answer. Why you asked?)


It same with an evil colony. When queen seeking is near suicide, try above.

 

[MartinL]

Split it into two, then at least one half are ready to be re-queened, eggs will give her away if she remains secretive.

The old queen should be easier to find in the smaller colony. Then if you want you can unite the two splits once the new queen is laying well.

 

[Snail368]

As the others suggest, divide the colony, find out which half is Queenless and introduce. Ted Hooper discusses introducing a new Queen to a nucleus first, before introducing to the main colony (if you had been able to find the old Queen).

 

[Bcrazy]

All i want to do is to re queen the whole colony. By the way (you old fart know the right answer. Why you asked?) I do not know the answer to finding the original queen that's why i asked.
I understand your logic but it still does not find the individual queen that i need rid of.

eggs will give her away if she remains secretive. wrong, how does one find the individual queen when looking for eggs? I have seen queens on the comb but never laying an egg when i have been holding the frame and following her movement. Please remember i can not distinguish the queen from workers even scrutinizing the abdomen of the bees in front of me.

As the others suggest, divide the colony, find out which half is Queen less and introduce Yes that will re queen half my colony so do i then unite the two groups with the original queen being placed back among her fold to fight it out? I think not.

The queen i wish to introduce is in a Nuc with some bees from the original colony so she has been accepted.
I am no nearer the solution i do not know which way to turn.
Anyway thanks for your comments.

Mo

 

[Bcrazy]

Please let me explain.

i have raised 6 queens from a colony that in my opinion is fighting back against Varroa because i have not treated the colony for a few years now and the mite drop is 3 mites over a 7 day period with damage being apparent on the mites that i have inspected. the daily mite drop woks out to be 0.42 per day so there is definitely no need to treat.
I wish to introduce a queen from the batch into my final colony and hopefully have another colony resistant to Varroa. So i hope you understand the predicament i am in not being able to find the original queen dam her . The other queens i have given away. To my mind its a bit late to consider raising any more queens at present. I am coming to the conclusion i will need to dispose of half a colony of bees because of not finding a single poxy queen. Also i am not prepared to let them fight it out.
Hope that puts it all in perspective for you. After this is all over i don't know what is going to become of the beekeeping lark.

Mo

 

[Tom Bick]

You are obviously found queens in the past and we all have a hide and seek queen at one time or another and from your posts have introduced queens into hives.

I would recommend that you have one final go take your time have the image of the queen with long legs and a halo of bees in your mind, hold the frame at almost arms stretch and focus an a 4” square of the frame and scan this 4”square across, up and down, corners and 9 times out of 10 she pops up on one frame during the first scan of frames.

Well this works for me.

 

[protheroe]

sometimes i go through a hive 3 times on the same day if i have to find a queen.She usually turns up by then.A complete pain,i know but if she has to be found then so be it

 

[Finman]

.
I have very seldom difficulties to find a queen.

But one altenative is that keep the hive tight. It swarms and then the queen is not there many more.

.

 

[Bcrazy]

Members
I have had no difficulty in the past or even present to spotting the queen, until now, but you all seem to be missing the point that this queen in question is the same size if not smaller than the workers therefor the only indentification of her would be the abdomen in the tappered and pointed end of her body. It has always been supposed that her thorax is larger than the worker but try locating these particular sailent points when all the bees are moving slowly across the comb.
I think i will reduce the size of the colony by removing a frame at a time into a Nuc then see if the queen is still laying and trying to see if its possible to define what frame she is on and then to remove the said frame from the colony. If all else fails then i destroy half my big colony which is to me a drastic way to end this messing about.
I am totally fed up with this situation and i have tried all alternative methods of locating queens but to no avail. They die.

Mo.

 

[protheroe]

oh,the joy of beekeeping.Someone once told me it is such a relaxing pastime.

 

[Tom Bick]

Try putting an old introduction cage on top of the frames and see if the smell of another queen on the cage will attract her.

Worth a go

 

[Norton]

It's lunch time here and too hot to work outside, so thought I add my 3P's worth.

A true case of another elusive lady. Come on Bcrazy, you've been doing it for a few years now and still don't seem to have got the knack!

The lady is on the floor or walls of the hive. SO, take the frames out, examine them separately and place them in another box in pairs. When you have done this and still not found the queen look for her on the floor/walls/ in the feeder. She is probably in one of the back corners on the floor. If you still have not found her, then she is on one of the internal comb faces in one of the pairs. Check the bottoms of the frames carefully.

IF it is impossible to find her then why not bleed sealed frames of brood into your nuc. She'll turn up during one of your inspections.

I bet the colony is nervous and aggressive.

Good luck and if at first you do not succeed, try and try again.

 

[Snail368]

I had a similar problem last year. What I did was to split the original colony. Only one of the two colonies will have eggs after 2-3 days. The eggless colony gets the new queen introduced.

The old colony should be placed to one side of the newly queened colony and then swop this hive from one side to another of the newly queened colony at weekly intervals. Most of the flying bees will (should) end up in the newly queened colony. Finally shake out the bees from the old colony say 30m+ from the apiary. Flying bees will return to the only hive remaining. Old Queen should get lost.

I couldn't find the old queen either. Tried every technique including sieving. The bee inspector couldn't find her either. So this was a last resort. It worked.

 

[flemage]

Had a think to see if there was a differnt way around this, not sure this would work but may be some help rather than kill half a hive, may be worth a go.

Split the hive as per other posts.

Then on the half with the eggs do a shook swarm so completly new foundation.

If you have drawn, empty comb, place 1 frame in center of box.

Next day she should be on this laying.

Or if you have no drawn comb check daily and see where they start to draw it first, as soon as you see eggs she is on that frame (or very close by).


good luck!

 

[Norton]

SO Bcrazy, did you or did you not get the gal? I'm sure many people on the forum are waiting with abated breath for your news.

 

[Finman]

Members
I have had no difficulty in the past or even present to spotting the queen, until now,

but you all seem to be missing the point that this queen in question is the same size if not smaller than the workers

therefor the only indentification of her would be the abdomen in the tappered and pointed end of her body.Mo.

We are missing the point, point by point?

 

[drstitson]

split hives.

wait for a bit to see which behaves in queenless fashion (if necessary leave for few days and see which half makes queen cells and which has eggs).

make sure Q- half is on original site to collect flyers. if you have to swap around go back at end of day and Q+ hive will be depleted.

check frames as per PH advice (ie paired). if you still can't find shake all bees through a QE. hopefully thorax should still stop her.

 

[Legs]

I know that hindsight is a wonderful thing, but, having noticed that your queen was small and difficult to distinguish from workers, wouldn't it have been sensible to have marked her there and then?

 

[crazy_bull]

I had a similar problem last year. What I did was to split the original colony. Only one of the two colonies will have eggs after 2-3 days. The eggless colony gets the new queen introduced.

The old colony should be placed to one side of the newly queened colony and then swop this hive from one side to another of the newly queened colony at weekly intervals. Most of the flying bees will (should) end up in the newly queened colony. Finally shake out the bees from the old colony say 30m+ from the apiary. Flying bees will return to the only hive remaining. Old Queen should get lost.

I couldn't find the old queen either. Tried every technique including sieving. The bee inspector couldn't find her either. So this was a last resort. It worked.

This works well

C B