Honeybee colonies down 53%

[Into the lions den]

If they use the war year figures and these of the years immediately after..............then the whole thing is hopelessly flawed.

If you had bees you told them how many you had and got a sugar ration for feeding them in return..............so quite a lot of people had quite a lot of hives (of COURSE they did, we're British and honest!). Once the sugar ration came off and there was no longer any advantage the official count dropped by over 100,000 hives..................wonder where the 'sudden number drop' theorists would take that one???

People are drawing the start line at whatever position suits their argument, ditto for the current position...............if you are trying to demonstrate collapse you use post war figures and compare it with numbers around or shortly after the millenium........if trying to show the opposite you use figures from the latter years of the last century and compare it with best estimates of the numbers today.

Beekeeping, and kept hive numbers, are currently on a strong rebound. How long that will last is another matter altogether.

Wild colonies are very rare compared to in the past, a perfectly normal response to the ravages of uncontrolled varroa. Some recovery in these numbers does seem to be underway, although this may largely be due to increased numbers of escaping swarms from the hives of the increased number of less experienced beekeepers re-occupying the feral vacancies. ( I appreciate that is a slight slur on the inexperienced, and a tad unfair, as many of them are cautious and will make excellent beekeepers, and that some more experienced are blase about it or even encourage swarming as it is 'natural'.)

 

[Hebeegeebee]

According to Garden Organic's December newsletter:

"Wild honeybees are already virtually extinct in the U.K whilst managed honeybee colonies have plummeted by 53% in just 20 years".

Discuss...

1) Varroa kills wild honeybees.

2) If the number of managed colonies has reduced by 53%, well I suspect the number of managed Ford Escorts has reduced even more. Both are for reasons of choice.*

I suspect some beekeepers gave up when varroa arrived as they couldn't be bothered or didn't know how to treat. Let-alone beekeeping when a harvest is gathered each autumn cannot now happen. Rebound has followed in recent years.

* And rust of course.

 

[alanf]

...Beekeeping, and kept hive numbers, are currently on a strong rebound. How long that will last is another matter altogether...

If we are talking about actual figures, the Welsh annual inspectors report for 2012 has been posted on the beebase site.

The number of new beekeepers registering on Beebase in recent years has risen, progressively, from 102 during 2007 to 406 in 2011. This year, however, it has fallen to 242.

The rate of increase peak appears to have passed in Wales, interesting to see what is happening elsewhere. That might be reflected in the number of course applications locally. After a couple of years' full capacity and waiting lists the numbers are down a little. Overall the number of beekeepers is probably still growing over the natural replacement/retirement level but no danger of this site becoming the next Facebook for all the cool kids to hang out .

As MM says, in our neck of the woods there is a substantial ethnic community keeping bees which the inspectorate are only partially aware of. A fall in beebase registrations might reflect that most existing beekeepers who are likely to register at some point are already there, the rest are unlikely to join them. The trends also reflect the difficulty of maintaining a mature database where the challenges become as much constantly re-validating the data already on there (removing those who have given up) rather than all out recruitment. I can't see much incentive to de-register at present. Building a database as a contact list to control disease outbreaks does not necessarily make it accurate as a census; it's just the best guess we've got as it stands.

 

[Skyhook]

1) Varroa kills wild honeybees.

2) If the number of managed colonies has reduced by 53%, well I suspect the number of managed Ford Escorts has reduced even more. Both are for reasons of choice.*

I suspect some beekeepers gave up when varroa arrived as they couldn't be bothered or didn't know how to treat. Let-alone beekeeping when a harvest is gathered each autumn cannot now happen. Rebound has followed in recent years.

* And rust of course.

If your bees are rusting, they are definitely too damp. Try matchsticks under the crownboard.



.

 

[Ely]

Try matchsticks under the crownboard.



.

Why did the chicken cross the road?

 

[Into the lions den]

1) Varroa kills wild honeybees.

Just to be clear, as I am not 100% sure of the meaning of the frowning face smiley.................I SHOULD have used the word 'feral' instead of 'wild'..........I was referring to Apis mellifera, and not to other types that may have crossed other peoples minds.

 

[sandysman]

Oh Luminos what have you done?

The issue with stats is that you are reliant on the data you are being given to work on. Therefore the figures in this case are reliant on individuals declaring their hives and as can be seen, not all do. For example, a chap in the next village to me has 20+ hives and has kept bees for more than 10 years. He has no insurance, he is not in any BKA and therefore his hives are not declared. How many others there are like this is anybodies guess.
At best any figures quoted can only be a guesstimate.

Sandysman

 

[For want of a better word]

1) Varroa kills wild honeybees.

2) If the number of managed colonies has reduced by 53%, well I suspect the number of managed Ford Escorts has reduced even more. Both are for reasons of choice.*

I suspect some beekeepers gave up when varroa arrived as they couldn't be bothered or didn't know how to treat. Let-alone beekeeping when a harvest is gathered each autumn cannot now happen. Rebound has followed in recent years.

* And rust of course.

and imports of Cortinas... not forgetting our Kit Car beekeepers too !​

 

[Dishmop]

Well that sounds pessimistic! Where did they get there stats from?

Probably the "Sun"

 

[adrian wilford]

fed all mine with fondant and to my surprise all surviving so far, pretty pleased.

 

[Chris Ibbo]

Probably the "Sun"

Lmfao

 

[Chris Ibbo]

Does anyone know of any projects that are underway, that are trying to produce bees which are resilient enough to survive as feral bees? I would love to do some winter reading on it. Thanks

 

[Little John]

Does anyone know of any projects that are underway, that are trying to produce bees which are resilient enough to survive as feral bees? I would love to do some winter reading on it. Thanks

I don't think 'producing bees to become ferals' is as popular an idea as saving those which have already become ferals - but anyway, here's a place to start:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FeralBeeProject

LJ

 

[Chris Ibbo]

Thanks little john

 

[mbc]

Does anyone know of any projects that are underway, that are trying to produce bees which are resilient enough to survive as feral bees? I would love to do some winter reading on it. Thanks

To an extent we're all at it, if we breed from our survivors.
Ferals seem to be surviving longer in some areas so I imagine we're just round the corner from them surviving to an extent in most places, just as pyrethroid resistant mites sprung up in many places at once.
Ron Hoskins near swindon and Prof. Ratnieks at sussex uni are two of the best publicized people actively trying to breed for varroa resistance.

 

[Chris Ibbo]

Thanks mbc. I just find it hard to believe that if the whole feral bee decline is being taken seriously by the government, that they haven't got a group of top quality beekeepers, breeders and geneticists on the case as a funded project. Or are we round the corner from the feral bees making a come back as you say? and are beekeepers doing enough as it is just selecting the best bees from there stock for breeding?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Oh Luminos what have you done?

The issue with stats is that you are reliant on the data you are being given to work on. Therefore the figures in this case are reliant on individuals declaring their hives and as can be seen, not all do. For example, a chap in the next village to me has 20+ hives and has kept bees for more than 10 years. He has no insurance, he is not in any BKA and therefore his hives are not declared. How many others there are like this is anybodies guess.
At best any figures quoted can only be a guesstimate.

Sandysman

Chap across the road from one of my fields just started beekeeping this year and hasn't bothered registering his 30 hives on beebase as he doesn't know the postcode for the bit of field he's bought to put them on.

I also forgot to register the hive I have at the association apiary as well - oversight rectified when i attended the apiary when the SBI came to inspect our stock

 

[Little John]

Little John, to clarify- Mike Brown was not talking about any crisis wiping out colonies, but a decline in the number of colonies kept due to decisions made by beekeepers to give up or reduce numbers, not least in light of declining returns resulting from reduced forage availability.

Sure - I was just chucking that in as an example of how 'Bee Demise' alarmist misinformation is being spread by the media - as it makes for good copy.

The use of BBKA stats by the authorities can only ever create a fictional picture. For example - the number of beeks around the Boston area must be in the hundreds, yet the last time I looked, the BBKA membership for this area was just 1 (one).
I don't know whether that's as a result of the BBKA getting into bed with Bayer and Syngenta, or simply because we tend to be an independent lot (and tight with our money !) around here.

LJ

 

[BeeJayBee]

Feral bees - the ones in a neighbour's chimneys clearly don't know they're meant to have died because they've been there for 16+ years. Same with a colony in a friend's yew tree, which they reckon was occupied by bees when their parents took over the property.

Fera, I think, makes a guesstimate about total numbers based on how many are registered. BBKA can, obviously, only say how many members there are and how many hives are registered.

Statistics, though, are the tools of a statistician, who can use them to tell whatever tale they choose.

 

[Dishmop]

Perhaps the decline of feral honeybee colonies is because people keep catching them and putting them in hives.