Honey rather than sugar

[Vramin]

Thanks Ely ... why is that as soon as Finman posts it always gets dragged away from the OP ? ..

The OP asked how many full supers should be left on to feed the bees in winter.

Finman's first post answered that question - zero he said, and then went on to give some good advice.

We get dragged away by Dishmop's obsessive and extremely repetitive and tedious attacks on Finman at every opportunity.

 

[Bob Bee]

Due to an ongoing illness which will make it difficult if not impossible to remove and extract the supers, I'm toying with the idea of leaving them on over winter instead of feeding them the usual sugar syrup throughout September.

In theory how many fully capped supers would I need to leave on a National to ensure that they don't starve and how do you think they should be placed, i.e. under or over the brood box.

I'm a psychotherapist not a mathematician so not great with working out kg just tell me straight. I'm more interested in how the bees will feel about it.

Last year a friend had to leave two strong colonies, with two supers that were only half full, in August (it was a poor year if you remember) due to a family emergency. In April he asked me to take them over as he wasn't returning. The supers had been pretty well filled with mostly Ivy and the queen excluders had been left on. They were on solid floors and the porter sized holes had been left open under the roof with no additional insulation. They were in a sheltered spot but in a valley that got a fair bit of frost through the winter.
When I picked them up in late April the brood boxes were full of bees in good health and went on to fill double broods and produce a fair crop of honey.
There may have been a degree of good luck in this but it shows that sometimes not following best practice or ideal theory can achieve a perfectly acceptable result. Sometimes, life , ability and circumstance dictate your practice.

 

[Finman]

.
I must tell what professional do. They have here 500 -3000 hives.

They keep queen in one brood box. That means that brood box has not a bit honey. All are in supers. They extract supers and they start sugar feeding at once because hive has no energy stores.

Essential is that the hive has pollen stores, One brood frames needs one pollen store frame. Pollen has all essential nutrition what fast growing bee larva needs. Larva grows in 5 days 1000 fold in weight.

All happens with aid of pollen. Carbonhydrate is needed of course and it can be sugar, ambrosia, honey or what ever. Like in USA they use corn syrup.


I understand that a British 2-hive owner want to give best to his bees, because he loves them.

- He pays 2-fold price for polybox,
- 3-fold price for wooden frames and
- 2-fold frice for ambrosia and
- 8-fold price for honey when he does not use sugar as winter food.
- then he ask in summer, where to get cheap sugar

That is the way he goes and if you wantv to be friend with him, you MUST applause with him "well said"

What I can say is "May God bless you"

in Finnish language it means "you cannot win a stupid in debating".


.

 

[pargyle]

Last year a friend had to leave two strong colonies, with two supers that were only half full, in August (it was a poor year if you remember) due to a family emergency. In April he asked me to take them over as he wasn't returning. The supers had been pretty well filled with mostly Ivy and the queen excluders had been left on. They were on solid floors and the porter sized holes had been left open under the roof with no additional insulation. They were in a sheltered spot but in a valley that got a fair bit of frost through the winter.
When I picked them up in late April the brood boxes were full of bees in good health and went on to fill double broods and produce a fair crop of honey.
There may have been a degree of good luck in this but it shows that sometimes not following best practice or ideal theory can achieve a perfectly acceptable result. Sometimes, life , ability and circumstance dictate your practice.

Wow ... you could say lucky but the reality is that bees will be bees - they were obviously able to maintain their hive in a survival condiition and had plenty of food available - although the presence of the queen excluder would have meant that the cluster would have had to stay where the queen was in the brood box - perhaps they had enough in the brood box and didn't need anything in the supers ? Or perhaps she was a small queen and got through - I understand queens shrink a bit when they are not laying.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Box on the bottom works for me.
I have done it when there have been part capped frames at the end of the season;empty at first inspection.
One is definitely going under this year as half of it is pollen.

 

[Finman]

One is definitely going under this year as half of it is pollen.

That is splended method to give wellfare to colony for winter.

When you look after a month, I bet that pollen is away then.

 

[Queens59]

I guess feral colonies in trees are similar to a hive with supers on...and they used to live through many winters prior to varroa.

 

[Finman]

I guess feral colonies in trees are similar to a hive with supers on...and they used to live through many winters prior to varroa.

Jep. That is "catch and release" method in beekeeping. Or "do nothing" method.

You mean that only meaning in beekeeping is to keep them alive and offer to the "a home".

 

[oliver90owner]

Enrico annd Q59 have said it all. No problem with full supers over the cluster. If no sugar syrup is involved, the honey can be recovered later with no risk of breaking the honey laws.

RAB

 

[Finman]

Enrico annd Q59 have said it all. No problem with full supers over the cluster. If no sugar syrup is involved, the honey can be recovered later with no risk of breaking the honey laws.

RAB

no problem to loose £ 100 as money. You could drive car with that 1000 km.

 

[Mattl]

I'm a fairly new beek but logic says that bees on honey is better than bees on sugar.

 

[Mattl]

Depends if you keep bees to make money or as a hobby! I'm a hobbyist, the honey that I may get is just a bonus to me.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

blaa blaa blaa. Now it is not a question what bees do. Beekeeping is such that a beekeepr takes honey and gives sugar instead.

Don't try to be too wise.

They are youtr hives and yourt hive. Just do as you like.

when hive has 20 kg honey, the value is as sold 120 euros. As winter food value is 20 euros.

You just give 100 euros for nothing.

.

But Finman, its not about money! The Opening Post said that the beekeeper had an ongoing illness and unable to do the usual removal and extraction. They were asking if it would be ok to leave the honey on. I guess that the concern will be if the bees cannot fly to defacate will it have an effect on hive health.

I am in a similar position but able to take small amounts of frames off as my bees are in my garden.

In the same situation as the poster I would consider asking someone from the local association if they would care for them in exchange for the honey.

 

[northernsoul]

Thanks for all your replies.
You've all given me something to think about

 

[Finman]

But Finman, its not about money! .

Question is that if some one says that honey is better winter food to bees, my duty is to say that normal sugar is as good.

That is what I say.

You can waste you money just as you wish. YIOu may pay douple price for nothing, but why you need to genarate pure lies around it?

Why modern scciece facts are not enough to you. You must find your own reasons why a beginner do his stupid things as they do.

There is no limit to this carbage

All facst are in Internet with your own language, Why don't you use them!


Don't you think about those beekeepers who really love to learn something new fact, how thing are, which are facts and not outlets of some one hive owners verbal diarhea?

.
.

 

[oliver90owner]

I think Finsky has not understood the OP and has gone off at a tangent (nothing unusual in that).

RAB

 

[Mattl]

I feed my bees caviar over the winter

 

[Finman]

But Finman, its not about money! The Opening Post said that the beekeeper had an ongoing illness and unable to do the usual removal and extraction. .

That is very different question. I have feeded my hives with old capped honey two years and I did not buy sugar. But last winter hives become really sick for that hioney. Never again.

Question from me was only, is sugar bad winter food for bees, and answer is absolutely NO.



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[Finman]

I'm a fairly new beek but logic says that bees on honey is better than bees on sugar.

Yes, it is but how you get money if you feed the yield to bees?

Normal yield is not even enough to feed hive over winter.

Have you forgotten the main purpose of beekeeping.


Like in Finland, pets get so much nursing that vets have no time to nurse milking cows.

Something is badly missing in beekeeping in Great Britain.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0714IbwC3HA"]Let It Be - The Beatles - Lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Cie]

Question is that if some one says that honey is better winter food to bees, my duty is to say that normal sugar is as good.

Show us the nutritional breakdown of honey compared to sugar, so that the evidence is clear. This I have to see.