Honey bee abdomen diameter reference

[user 6228]

Does any one have a reference for honeybee dimensions, specifically the abdomen and thorax diameters?

Edit: The reason is that the air resistance of honey bees when in cluster is very sensitive to honey bee diameter. So i need a number much better than the "3 to 4mm" to do the convective heat loss.
I can find the sizes of bees in Kenya (A.m.Scutellata etc..) but nothing about any European bees.
otherwise i see some rather boring time with a travelling microscope looming.

 

[Murox]

Only by thinking about excluder size i.e. gaps are around 4.1 millimetres > 4.4 millimetres - thorax of queen is larger than a worker.

 

[Murox]

This cushion link contains the average body measurements --no k it's not the one I thought it was sorry
bee morphometry
Didn't Snodgrass have some imeasurments in "the anatomy of the bee" ? if I remembered the tile correctly ?

 

[Antipodes]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ments-of-five-honeybee-species_tbl1_235788100

 

[user 6228]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ments-of-five-honeybee-species_tbl1_235788100

thanks that one only gives the distance between wing roots. there's quite a few that give length of legs or length of wing features but body width is very difficult to find hence the post.

 

[masterBK]

For abdomens won't it vary somewhat depending on whether bee inhaling or exhaling or are you assuming breathing by passive diffusion while in cluster?

 

[The Poot]

It will also vary according to cell size? Foundationless frames and all that?

 

[Antipodes]

thanks that one only gives the distance between wing roots. there's quite a few that give length of legs or length of wing features but body width is very difficult to find hence the post.

Ok...will keep searching and hopefully will be able to post back.

 

[Swarm]

Bit like most creatures, there will obviously be variation in size, some smaller some larger.

 

[Apple]

Bit like most creatures, there will obviously be variation in size, some smaller some larger.

Also within sub species
Some of the Cornish Amm seem to be smaller than the big fat Aml, and the Manx Amm were different again.
Will look through some books this evening... I am sure I have seen some size comparisons somewhere ?Ruttner?

Chons da

 

[Swarm]

Possibly, but that's just going to be a 'general' reference? I'm thinking individuals within the same colony, they are not all going to be uniform size.

 

[user 6228]

does anyone have "Biogeography and Taxonomy of Honeybees by Ruttner? and if so can they tell me if it has any info on this subject?

 

[yukonbees]

"Collective thermoregulation in bee clusters" by Ocko/Mahadevan assumes a small sphere with a diameter of 0.65cm (0.14g) refer to top right paragraph of page 7 (pdf version)
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rsif.2013.1033

 

[understanding_bees]

Does any one have a reference for honeybee dimensions, specifically the abdomen and thorax diameters?

Edit: The reason is that the air resistance of honey bees when in cluster is very sensitive to honey bee diameter. So i need a number much better than the "3 to 4mm" to do the convective heat loss.
I can find the sizes of bees in Kenya (A.m.Scutellata etc..) but nothing about any European bees.
otherwise i see some rather boring time with a travelling microscope looming.

There is a very easy way in which you could determine the size of the bees in a hive. I am not proposing something which would normally be part of a hive, but rather a method to enable you to discover the size of a bee, rather than to measure it.
We all know that queen excluders have a particular size grating which allows worker bees to pass through easily, but which prevents queen bees getting through, because queen bees are bigger than worker bees. But there have been comments at times about small queens, which are able to pass through a queen excluder. This just highlights the fact that bees can have different sizes, even in one hive.
To determine the size of the bees in a hive, I would set up a series of gratings of different widths, such as 3.3, 3.6, 3.9mm initially. You could choose other sizes if you wish. I would set these up in an escape device which the bees would need to use to exit the hive. Use the bigger size as the first obstacle for the bees, then the next biggest, and progressing to the smallest. The biggest bees will not be able to pass the first obstacle, and only the smallest bees may be able to pass the last obstacle.
If this method is of interest to you, then please contact me by private message, for information on how you could easily construct the gratings.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Agree with @Swarm. I've found that worker bees' sizes vary in the colony and if you are looking for an average it depends how many drones there are too. At some times of year there are quite a few.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There is a very easy way in which you could determine the size of the bees in a hive. I am not proposing something which would normally be part of a hive, but rather a method to enable you to discover the size of a bee, rather than to measure it.
We all know that queen excluders have a particular size grating which allows worker bees to pass through easily, but which prevents queen bees getting through, because queen bees are bigger than worker bees. But there have been comments at times about small queens, which are able to pass through a queen excluder. This just highlights the fact that bees can have different sizes, even in one hive.
To determine the size of the bees in a hive, I would set up a series of gratings of different widths, such as 3.3, 3.6, 3.9mm initially. You could choose other sizes if you wish. I would set these up in an escape device which the bees would need to use to exit the hive. Use the bigger size as the first obstacle for the bees, then the next biggest, and progressing to the smallest. The biggest bees will not be able to pass the first obstacle, and only the smallest bees may be able to pass the last obstacle.
If this method is of interest to you, then please contact me by private message, for information on how you could easily construct the gratings.

It's the size of the thorax that determines whether a bee can get through a gap or not. The abdomen if far more flexible/squishable whilst the thorax is relatively inflexible.