Hive Insulation - October BBKA News

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Indoor wintering facilities such as are used in parts of Canada require a method of exhausting CO2. Heat exchangers are normally used for this purpose. At an approximation, 20% of the sugar consumed by bees in winter is converted into water. This means bees maintaining their hive temperature emit the water that is roughly 17% of honey plus they produce another @17% of water from metabolizing sugars.

What effect does different climate have on wintering requirements? I'm in a hot humid climate where most of the UK is cool humid. Finman is in a cold humid climate in winter. How would his wintering requirements differ? I've tried several methods of wintering over the last 46 years and always found an upper entrance to be beneficial. It can be quite small and still highly effective. If we have enough snow to block the lower entrance, the bees still get air and will fly on warm days from the upper entrance.
 
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IT is 70% percent out of sugar weight, what turns to water.

The secret of this enormous weight is that, H2 comes from sugar and oxygen comes from respiration. Atom weight of H2 is 2 and oxygen has 16.

20 kg Winter food produces 14 kg water.
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What effect does different climate have on wintering requirements? I'm in a hot humid climate where most of the UK is cool humid. Finman is in a cold humid climate in winter. How would his wintering requirements differ? I've tried several methods of wintering over the last 46 years and always found an upper entrance to be beneficial. It can be quite small and still highly effective. If we have enough snow to block the lower entrance, the bees still get air and will fly on warm days from the upper entrance.
is this a wooden hive? on a low/no stand?
 
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IT is 70% percent out of sugar weight, what turns to water.

The secret of this enormous weight is that, H2 comes from sugar and oxygen comes from respiration. Atom weight of H2 is 2 and oxygen has 16.

20 kg Winter food produces 14 kg water.
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OK: I feel like a good birching.

That's close but it's perhaps a bit less than that (I get 13 and a bit) and I just post the calc because it's kind of neat when you triggered me looking at it. Glucose and fructose are C6H12O6 so C6H12O6 + 6O2 => 6CO2 ignored + 6H20 all "from" the sugar (G%d know how the O atoms are allocated. Randomly? Has any loon burnt sugar in O18?)

Or approx (12*1 + 6*16) / (6*12 + 12*1 + 6*16) = 108/180 or 0.6 water and surely there was an easier way to do that? Ach, of course, all divides by 6 so 18/30. Next time.

So if the honey is 16% water already we yield 16 + .6*84 pct water or 66.4pct call it exactly 2/3.
 
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Oh....dear, that was completely uncalled for, and if you knew me you would realise that even without a suitable emoticon the comment was tongue in cheek.
Most of us are friends here and we share. When I lost bees last winter two people gave me bees...free.We help each other out.
It's not a question of ripping anybody off so don't be so judgemental. I simply wanted to look at one article which I have and that's the end of it.

As for getting things one doesn't pay for....pots and kettles come to mind

Lots of things said on here that are completely uncalled for and you are a person who has done just that to me in the past:hairpull:.....just making a point and maybe being a little mischievous...and yes very bored now!
 
Lots of things said on here that are completely uncalled for and you are a person who has done just that to me in the past:hairpull:.....just making a point and maybe being a little mischievous...and yes very bored now!

There is nothing quite like the virtuous glow you enjoy when someone is horrible to you : and you are pleasant back to them..

Oh and a sense of moral superiority:judge:
 
whistling

Signwriting at Laphroaig distillery on the Isle of Islay recently. I accidentally got locked in a duty free warehouse for 1.5hrs and no amount of whistling brought help.
 
Didn't beekeepers use to use quilts to keep bees warm back in the day before thin plywood?

And autumn leaves in the space between box and lift is a good cheap and natural insulating material for a WBC. Along with a good few inches atop. Free and it blows away in spring!
 
Didn't beekeepers use to use quilts to keep bees warm back in the day before thin plywood?

An
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And before the days of PIR and dissemination of information via the internet
Beekeepers along with other farmers of livestock and plants have always been resourceful
 
Oh....dear, that was completely uncalled for, and if you knew me you would realise that even without a suitable emoticon the comment was tongue in cheek.
Most of us are friends here and we share. When I lost bees last winter two people gave me bees...free.We help each other out.
It's not a question of ripping anybody off so don't be so judgemental. I simply wanted to look at one article which I have and that's the end of it.

As for getting things one doesn't pay for....pots and kettles come to mind

Yes...I agree...terrible how some people can make uncalled for comments and be so judgemental.....pots & kettles come to my mind too!!!:icon_204-2:
 
I use wooden hives, 3/4 inch thick pine or cypress, estimated R=1.5. The problem here is that moisture accumulates inside the hive and eventually triggers dysentery. A small upper entrance that vents the moisture eliminates the problem. A typical colony winters on 3 to 4 kg of honey, then ramps up brood production in February with highest stores consumption in late March. Total winter consumption is about 20 kg before fruit bloom in spring. The critical time period is from Feb 1st to April 1st when moisture can condense inside the hive and temperatures often dip to -10 at night.

The most critical factor in wintering here is blocking the wind. I've had colonies fail because there was nothing to stop wind from blowing around the hives. I maintain 4 colonies on a stand at .5 meters above the ground. The colonies are pushed together in fall.

Anyone who insulates a hive with leaves deserves the results. Leaves absorb moisture until they are saturated at which point they are less than worthless as insulation.

I give a lot of credence to Finman on wintering. His climate is challenging.
 
The problem here is that moisture accumulates inside the hive and eventually triggers dysentery. ..

I suppose that you do not minimize wintering space enough. Dew point borns inside the hive and moisture condensates onto cold walls.

What you should do is to get the interrior warmer and dew poing outside the hive. Water goes inside the wood and walls are all the time wet when out temp is cold enough.

Keep ventilation small that heat do not escape. Relative moisture keeps the interior dry, not the ventilation

You would try couple of polyhives. It protects the colony during hot weather. You just try and see yourself.

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I use wooden hives, 3/4 inch thick pine or cypress, estimated R=1.5. The problem here is that moisture accumulates inside the hive and eventually triggers dysentery. A small upper entrance that vents the moisture eliminates the problem. A typical colony winters on 3 to 4 kg of honey, then ramps up brood production in February with highest stores consumption in late March. Total winter consumption is about 20 kg before fruit bloom in spring. The critical time period is from Feb 1st to April 1st when moisture can condense inside the hive and temperatures often dip to -10 at night.

The most critical factor in wintering here is blocking the wind. I've had colonies fail because there was nothing to stop wind from blowing around the hives. I maintain 4 colonies on a stand at .5 meters above the ground. The colonies are pushed together in fall.

Anyone who insulates a hive with leaves deserves the results. Leaves absorb moisture until they are saturated at which point they are less than worthless as insulation.

I give a lot of credence to Finman on wintering. His climate is challenging.



You have moisture on the walls and need to ventilate because the walls are cold and the bees need to metabolise a lot of sugar to stay alive. If the hives are insulated and or sheltered (e.g open front shed) then the walls will be warmed and your bees will produce less water. The dysentry /nosema is primarily a function of the cold rather than the moisture.
The mode of beekeeping you have originates from the 1930s&1940s when insulation was expensive, heavy, time consuming, low performance and in short supply.
Thus the solution for overwintering, promoted by C.L. Farrar was no insulation but big colonies, lots of stores and ventilation.
Today insulation is cheap, abundant, light and high performance. However, this means no top ventilation or top entrance to avoid desisication of the bees. In snow bound areas it also means lifting hives or sheltering them from the snow.
Honeybees prefer elevated nests for good reason!

This means you chose a method of beekeeping that will mean drastic reduction in your requirement for food but it does mean more changes than just insulating.

Why dont you dessicate your bees now? The dessication comes from the stack or chimney effect. In a classic wooden hive in cold climates the air is chilled by contact with the inner/crown board and so the stack effect is reduced.
 
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You could try electrict heating. 6-10W is good to keep a big hive warm and dry.

3 W is good for 3 frame nuc.

You could try and see what you learn about issue, what warm means to the hive. British solution is add ventilation to dry up the space but we rise up the heat.

I do not heat the hives during winter, but I put on terrarium heaters on the floor when spring starts and snow has melted.

Bees must continue their winter rest when they have nothing to do out.
 
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Bees must continue their winter rest when they have nothing to do out.

They don't bother much with that here, as there is always something to do out, when it is warm enough.
 

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