hive insulation and ventilation

[alexander]

So many ideas, and as its my first year its all a tad confusing!

My hive has a solid floor, and a glass crown board. Im worried about it getting damp with insulation, I was taught damp was the bees biggest winter enemy! Dont really know what to do, but I know single pane glass has zip in insulation quality. AS my bees Are on the side of a field, it could get fairly chilly.I have a wooden crown board I made, but with that, and insulation on top, the only ventilation will be the entrance. Will that be enough?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do what Finman advocates; drill a 15mm (I think,he wrote) hole at the top of the brood box but below the level of the crown board

 

[victor meldrew]

Prior to varroa, I had solid floors. I never provided top ventilation and the bees Wintered fine, year in year out !
VM

 

[Finman]

So many ideas, and as its my first year its all a tad confusing!

My hive has a solid floor, and a glass crown board.

- first,take the glass off
- drill a hole/upper entrance through the front wall at the level of upper part of lowest frames. Put a plastic tube through the hole. Put polyurethane glue around the tube. It forms a little foam tu the glue
Im worried about it getting damp with insulation,

- insulation keeps the hive warm and dry.

I was taught damp was the bees biggest winter enemy!
- I think that they are false teachers

- wooden grown board is splended. Over that put some insulations 5-7 cm where mice cannot make a nest. newspapers, stonewool, piece of foam plastic matress, ....something respirating. If it is solid like polystyrene, it may make a moist barrier and keeps the wooden board wet.

 

[Finman]

Prior to varroa, I had solid floors. I never provided top ventilation and the bees Wintered fine, year in year out !
VM

it depends on the material and structure of hives. If you use permeable inner cover material, it leads the moisture out.

20 kg food generates 15 kg water. Where to lead that moisture?

But upper entrance is really good, what ever the hive material is.

 

[user 6228]

it depends on the material and structure of hives. If you use permeable inner cover material, it leads the moisture out.

20 kg food generates 15 kg water. Where to lead that moisture?

But upper entrance is really good, what ever the hive material is.

an upper vent needs to be really small. 1 litre per minute gas flow for 12kg stores per winter even at this you lose 5 to 10% heat if it gets 20 litres /min you have lost the lot! moisture elimnation via a cold spot/side does not need to lose any useful heat, (but does in releastic practice)

 

[oliver90owner]

alexander,

I had one colony left on a solid floor last year. Middle November, or possibly later, the brood box was raised from the floor by about 3-4mm. It stayed like that all winter and the hive was dry in the spring when it was fitted with it's OMF. Care was taken to line up the boxes to reduce any water ingress and the hive was checked to be sure it sloped very slightly towards the entrance.

On the side of a field some extra care might be needed against driving rain.

Certainly the glass coverboard could either do with changing or effectively insulating.

I've never even contemplated getting out the airflow meter for any of my hives. The normal is OMF and no top ventilation, insulated over the crownboard. The airflow within the hive may be an important factor and the position of the cluster may be better selected by the bees, rather than a hole imposed late into the autumn.

A damp hive is bad for the bees; cold and damp even worse. Cold cannot be seen as good for them either. Mine are dry and warm enough, but I do accept they may use a little more stores with the OMFs.

I reckon the Harding style floors are probably nearer the optimum for ventilation and warmth in the hive while keeping things dry. I may well be making some next year as a trial, although with my limited number of colonies (and with several hive types), definitive results may not be possible - but just an impression will do for me.

Regards, RAB

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Alexander, at the very least you need to change the glass crown board in my opinion. An answer from Norfolk...I was at Easton College yeterday at a Norfolk Beekeepers event and spoke to a chap who runs 150 hives. Many years ago he was telling me the standard practice was to wrap the hives up (quilt) to keep the bees warm - that's when we had colder winters that we do now. He now doesn't bother as the weather is warmer but does put something above the crown board. He closes his open mesh floors around February time to stop the drafts and encourage the spring build-up.

I overwintered a (large) mini-nuc last winter. Removing the roof allowed me to see the water condensed under middle of the perspex crown board. A put a slab of polystyrene on it and a week later there was no condensation visible.

 

[Finman]

. He closes his open mesh floors around February time to stop the drafts and encourage the spring build-up.

e.

it is a strange thing that bees start broding in same time in Finland and in warmer climates.

February is the coldest month here. Frost is often -20C - -30C but however bees start small brooding.
If I open the the hive after cleansing flight in the middle of March, there are allready some bees emerging. If bees have not pollen near cluster, they again stop larva feeding. If they have pollen frame nearby, brood rearing continues, what ever the temp is.

 

[user 6228]

as regards the glass crown board, you will get condensation on it even with insulation above it how ever, the bees will probably drink some of it as I saw them doing to day on a perspex one... facinating watching them consume the liquid from the other side

 

[Finman]

as regards the glass crown board, you will get condensation on it even with insulation above it how ever, the bees will probably drink some of it as I saw them doing to day on a perspex one... facinating watching them consume the liquid from the other side

sorry but now you write dangerous nonsence. if there are so much water droplets in the hive that bees drink it, the hive will die for it.

Because the water goes inside cappings and the food swells out. It is lethal to bees.
They try to eate desparately the drilling sugar.

 

[fatshark]

as regards the glass crown board, you will get condensation on it even with insulation above it

I've no experience with glass crownboards, but if properly insulated e.g. Knauf board or Kingspan (50mm thick), you get no condensation under a Perspex crownboard. My hives - all OMF - were all setup like this last winter. It was very reassuring being able to lift the roof, peek under the Kingspan, and see the top of the cluster. You'll get condensation on a cool surface ... the insulation prevents this.

 

[For want of a better word]

I've no experience with glass crownboards, but if properly insulated e.g. Knauf board or Kingspan (50mm thick), you get no condensation under a Perspex crownboard. My hives - all OMF - were all setup like this last winter. It was very reassuring being able to lift the roof, peek under the Kingspan, and see the top of the cluster. You'll get condensation on a cool surface ... the insulation prevents this.

Put carpet tile over my glass crown boards.... have a hole in tile above feed hole... even with a fondant feeder.. or piece of slate.. seems to give enough ventilation through the hole / fiber of the tile.

IMO the BBKA recommendation of lifting the crown board with matchsticks on each corner would cause a cold gale to blast through the hive! particularly on an OMF... advice probably cut and pasted from a 1950s BBKA advice sheet to fill print space, before the advent of OMF etc

Plus my Mother told me NEVER to play with matches!!!!


TIN HAT ON !!

 

[luckydunny]

I have been considering adding some poly insulation in an eke/super for winter.
Hive with OMF is in a corner of a field and is exposed to strong winds.

Is it advisable, when temperatures are lower to insert the Verroa board as additional draught protection but still allowing, (reduced) airflow?

Or is that not a good idea?

 

[oliver90owner]

If it is subject to continual strong winds, I would seriously consider some form of cladding on the sides as well as over the crownboard. Reducing air currents under the hive may be a better alternative to leaving the OMF effectively sealed.

I think I would be moving a hive (if in such an exposed location) to the same site as your other hives for the winter.

RAB

 

[luckydunny]

My first winter so thanks for advice RAB.

 

[hedgerow pete]

because my lot are in the shed i do use duvets, realy as in old ones from home. pinched off the lads bed, kids, crikey did he complain when i did it

 

[MandF]

Is this the stuff we are talking about using in conjunction with an OMF?

http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/190545

 

[Arfermo]

Is this the stuff we are talking about using in conjunction with an OMF?

http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/190545

Yes - I found some offcuts in a skip but the local builders merchant is on the lookout for me for a builder who is going to use Celotex/Kingspan/Xtrawarm.

 

[drstitson]

"IMO the BBKA recommendation of lifting the crown board with matchsticks on each corner would cause a cold gale to blast through the hive!"

precisely - 460mm x 4 x 2.5mm = 46 cm2 hole in top of hive

ie equivalent of around 7cm round chimney at top of hive.