Hive condensation - ?worth trying calcium chloride desiccant?

[itma]

What did I write ?: "adjust their hives according to the seasons" Who said anything about 'now' ?

Actually you wrote "the judicious use of top ventilation can save the expenditure of energy which would otherwise be required to fan large volumes of warm, moist air out of the hive bottom, at times when the bees are dehydrating their stores" ... which mine are - right now.
And Arfermo seems pretty convinced that now is a great time to make sure that the top of the hive is well ventilated.

For the avoidance of doubt, I thought it worth emphasising "not now".

 

[Amari]

I think you all need to go and read the "Idiots guide to physics"

Thanks for all your advice Forumites. Getting at the truth is like "finding Higgs' Boson in the Grand Canyon" (quote from Guardian's Simon Hoggart, referring to the chance of getting a politician to admit a mistake - and congrats to Higgs on being awarded Nobel Prize for Physics today)

 

[drstitson]

"But beekeeping isn't about physics - it's about biology."

NOPE - as derek m implies - biology is nothing but applied chemistry. and chemistry is just applied physics.

 

[Finman]

.
Lets look what happens when sugar burns in bee's body to carbon diokside and water (+ energy)

sugar molar weight 180
6O2 molar weight....192
summa...................372


water molar weight ...6H2O...108
carbon diokside........6CO2...264
summa.............................372


When sugar burns in respiration, water will be 60% out of sugar weight.

If you have 15 kg sugar in winter stores, it has about 3 kg diluting water
When 15 kg sugar burns, it produces 9 kg water.
Water together 9+3 = 12 kg or litres.


SO, one medium box winter stores generates 12 litres water.

Water will be generated 12/18 = 67%



Langstroth box has stores 25 kg and then water will be generated 17 litres.



(and stop digging your nose)

 

[For want of a better word]

.
Lets look what happens when sugar burns in bee's body to carbon diokside and water (+ energy)

sugar molar weight 180
6O2 molar weight....192
summa...................372


water molar weight ...6H2O...108
carbon diokside........6CO2...264
summa.............................372


When sugar burns in respiration, water will be 60% out of sugar weight.

If you have 15 kg sugar in winter stores, it has about 3 kg diluting water
When 15 kg sugar burns, it produces 9 kg water.
Water together 9+3 = 12 kg or litres.


SO, one medium box winter stores generates 12 litres water.

Water will be generated 12/18 = 67%



Langstroth box has stores 25 kg and then water will be generated 17 litres.



(and stop digging your nose)

And so dear friends the bees get the most superb SAUNA !​

 

[richardbees]

How about ventilation - does top insulation prevent top ventilation or is your only ventilation via OMF?

Without going through all the posts, I believe having an OMF gives the bees enough ventilation to the extent even the entrance needs only be a mouse proof slot..

The bees in a 'warnholz' mini nuc with the front entrance closed coped very well on a sweltering 2 hrs bus journey in August.......the roar of their fanning was hidden by traffic noise.

 

[Finman]

[ !]

...............Oh Dear...............

.

 

[richardbees]

Why bring Mullah Omar's dad into it?

edit

finman, why change the pic of the bearded gent?

 

[BeeJayBee]

And so dear friends the bees get the most superb SAUNA ​

Saves them having to go outside for a wash!

 

[user 6228]

Saunas are bad for varroa fecundity

 

[Finman]

Saunas are bad for varroa fecundity

realis canis puppis facit APIARIUS

 

[oliver90owner]

Finman, I agree. Perhaps not your wording, but the essence is still the same.

Even I have been heard to say that IN A HEATWAVE a bit of top ventilation might do no harm

How many times do we read 'I have heard' or 'seen' or 'read somewhere'. Yes, quite often. People write a load of rubbish and those that read it often repeat it later as 'gospel'. 'Might' is another favourite 'get-out' term.

No joined up thinking going on. Perhaps not even any thinking at all.

Comments suggesting bees fanning in the depths of winter, while in a cluster, to move air around are really a load of cr*p. The hive ventilation needs to be fully operational and entirely (well almost) passive - the only input being the few watts the bees need to generate to maintain a surface temperature of the cluster above about eight degrees.

The heat required will be depedent on the heat losses from the hive. With an open floor who needs a through-draught 24/7.

Some should read John Hoskins little book - the section on his alternative version for the OMF.

Yes, there is far more ventilation than needed when an OMF is fitted. So why add an uncontrolled amount as a through-draught. Sheer madness on the part of the beekeeper who claims to be doing the best for his/her bees. Even so, the bees still survive even with this unwelcome interference from their suposed benefactor.

Finman is spot on with the chemistry, but we also need to remember that the 20kg of stores is there not only for the winter, but also for the spring expansion. Not much nectar is available for brood rearing before April, normally, but the bees will not be in a cluster (in the UK, of course) all of the time.

A rubbish thread ever since it was simply explained that dessicants are inappropriate solution to a problem that should not exist. That was likely on the first page! Yes, too many inexperienced amateurish, and wrong, contributions. It is occurring far more regularly recently. I do think Hivemaker was right at the point at which his valuable contributions appear to have ceased.

RAB

 

[user 6228]

realis canis puppis facit APIARIUS

if you wish to insult me kindly do it in english

The serious point behind it is
higher temperatures and humidities do inhibit varoa breeding... if you want the reference i will dig it out. The widespread cult of lowering humidity in hives has lts disadvantages, one of them is improving conditions for varoa. The OP has like many been exposed to the cults influence.

 

[Nige.Coll]

when i asked about winter prep and ventilation i was told the best thing to do was to block the vent holes in the roof, insulate the roof of hive (could insulate it all if i wanted)and put a solid crown board on under the insulation .

i cannot argue with this as i am a new beek and the guy i asked had kept bees since the 80's and had come through the last winter with very low losses compared to others .

i see people quoting physics a lot but doesn't the laws of physics say a bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly ?

i think the best people can do is ask opinions and use the one they think is the best. any thread descending into rants and arguments help no one.

i was told from the start if you ask 5 beeks the same question you will get 6 answers.
don't try to over complicate the situation is also some good advice i have had. keep it simple the bees will do the rest.

adding chemicals to the hive to dry it out i cannot see is a good thing to do.

 

[user 6228]

here is the reference
Naturwissenschaften 84 (1997) © Springer-Verlag 1997
High Humidity in the Honey Bee(Apis melliferaL.) Brood Nest Limits Reproduction of the Parasitic Mite Varroa jacobsoniOud.
B. Kraus, H.H.W. Velthuis
Universiteit Utrecht, Vakgroep Vergelijkende Fysiologie,

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Wow! I look forward to reading that. NO IRONY. thanks.

 

[pargyle]

realis canis puppis facit APIARIUS

real dog poop does BEEKEEPER

 

[Dishmop]

real dog poop does BEEKEEPER

sounds better if you reverse it.

 

[user 6228]

real dog poop does BEEKEEPER

my wife is the beekeeper so is he insulting my wife? or me?

Stop this repetition of the "comment", let this drop, its been reported.

 

[itma]

...
Even I have been heard to say that IN A HEATWAVE a bit of top ventilation might do no harm

How many times do we read 'I have heard' or 'seen' or 'read somewhere'. Yes, quite often. People write a load of rubbish and those that read it often repeat it later as 'gospel'. 'Might' is another favourite 'get-out' term.

No joined up thinking going on. Perhaps not even any thinking at all.
...

Oh dear, it appears RAB isn't doing the thinking. Or reading carefully enough.

I didn't say "I have heard" - what I said was "I have been heard to say" --- meaning 'I have said' NOT 'I have heard'.

And I regret that RAB should choose to misunderstand the English colloquialism "might do no harm". It means there is no downside and a small potential upside.
Google translate might equate it with "possibly harmless" but that really wasn't my intended meaning!


And if it seems I have confused even the Delphic o90o, I may have confused others, and if so, I need to clarify my statement.

I don't hold with the idea of any top ventilation in autumn or winter.
But if there is a flow on and the temperature is above about 30C (a UK summer heatwave), my opinion and practice has been to provide a little top (thus through) ventilation, if convenient and practicable.
I don't consider this essential, but do consider it a minor benefit without a downside.
I also recognise that others wouldn't bother. However, my hives are easily accessible, and its little trouble for this hobby beekeeper.
My point was that this was the only situation where I consider that any deliberate top ventilation could be of any benefit - and that the benefit even then was small and, by the argumentative, arguable!

My phrasing was intended to indicate that although this was my judgement call, it wasn't one that I was in any way evangelical about, or thought of great importance.

And to draw that contrast with the prevention of top ventilation in the UK winter, which I do judge to be an importantly beneficial choice.