Hive Building?

[LJH]

Firstly, I'd like to say hi, so "Hi all".
Secondly, I intend to build or purchase one or two hives, probably two. I would really like to build my own, but was wondering if this is a good or a bad idea? I am not a joiner, but I think my sufficient DIY woodworking skills would see me through! I would build to a popular size with regards to frames fitting in etc., but seem to be struggling to find decent plans on the net. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?
I would also appreciate feedback from anyone who has built their own...and pictures would be nice! Any advice - pro's and cons?

Thanks in advance

 

[Luka22]

Good Morning and Welcome!

Dave Cushman is a fantastic side where you should find a lot of information. F.e. here the measurements for a National Brood Box

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/natbrood.html

I would probably still buy 1 complete Hive and then see from there. I think most important would be the exact Bee space, too much space and they fill it with Comb too little and they fill it with Propolis, so it would be important that you have good tools. But have a look at his website and I am sure there will be others around soon to give their advice.

 

[MikeT]

I would buy one from one of the major manufactures. It would be sensible to buy one of the National starter kits which include all parts of the hive, frames and wax. Most of the manufactures sell Budget kits (self assembly)which are 2nds, but are perfectly acceptable. I bought mine from Maismore, they are also sold by Thornes and Mann Lake are just starting to sell good quality starter kits. This is how I started and then copied these in conjunction with plans.

It is very sensible to have spare kit, for emergencies.

Best of luck and welcome to this forum which is a wealth of knowledge.

Mike

 

[theeggman]

to the forum LJH.

Good luck and enjoy your beekeeping.

 

[Russel]

There's a set of plans by Will Stewart of Made Good Bikes which where on here?

 

[LJH]

Good Morning and Welcome!

Dave Cushman is a fantastic side where you should find a lot of information. F.e. here the measurements for a National Brood Box

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/natbrood.html

I would probably still buy 1 complete Hive and then see from there. I think most important would be the exact Bee space, too much space and they fill it with Comb too little and they fill it with Propolis, so it would be important that you have good tools. But have a look at his website and I am sure there will be others around soon to give their advice.

That's what I'm worried about the most with a self-build, the exact spacing measurements! Thanks for replying

I would buy one from one of the major manufactures. It would be sensible to buy one of the National starter kits which include all parts of the hive, frames and wax. Most of the manufactures sell Budget kits (self assembly)which are 2nds, but are perfectly acceptable. I bought mine from Maismore, they are also sold by Thornes and Mann Lake are just starting to sell good quality starter kits. This is how I started and then copied these in conjunction with plans.

It is very sensible to have spare kit, for emergencies.

Best of luck and welcome to this forum which is a wealth of knowledge.

Mike

Thanks for the advice Mike, I may decide to go down this route. Does this look to be a competitive price? http://www.bees-online.co.uk/view.asp?ID=1270

to the forum LJH.

Good luck and enjoy your beekeeping.

Thank you

There's a set of plans by Will Stewart of Made Good Bikes which where on here?

Thanks for that, will check it out
Please keep the replies coming, it's good to see what different people think and the route in which they went when starting out. I'd like to look at different possibilities before I commit.

 

[Davelin]

Maisem*re rock bottom is as good a hive to start with as any..

just a couple of things that I hope you've considered...

You've linked to a 14x12, are you aware of the various different size boxes used by UK beekeepers?

Do you have any knowledge/training of beekeeping? There is a lot more to it than building a box.

I would suggest that you make contact with your local beekeeping association before you go any further.

 

[peteinwilts]

welcome to the forum!

you should decide whether to go for wood or poly.

if wood, you should decide cedar, hardwood or softwood.

polys are cheap enough, and many on the forum swear by them.

each hive maker will have their favourite wood and their own reasons. I was given a couple of cedar supers, which are ok. they were used (came with a hive of bees rescued from the petrol can). the corners are rounded, but am not sure if it is because the wood is soft and is a 'feature'. (?)

I have not yet found a good supplier of cedar that does not cost the earth. The last supplier I found, I may as well buy the hives ready made.

All of my hives are made from 18mm softwood ply, with thick coats of green stain. I also give them an extra coat every couple of years.

as far as damage\wear and tear are concerned, the hives I built 5 years ago, can sit along those I have built recently and little difference can be seen.
For their cost, I have been very happy with their performance.

I use Dave Cushmans plans (beware, there are a couple of errors!), but over the years, have done a few modifications to suit my own needs and ideas.

 

[peteinwilts]

You've linked to a 14x12, are you aware of the various different size boxes used by UK beekeepers?

.

size matters!

14x12 hives are a great size for most bees, and really like them. However, I have a number of back injuries, and find that inspecting them puts a lot of strain on them.
as a result, I run both national and 14x12 hive sizes. (which is not ideal!)

 

[LJH]

Maisem*re rock bottom is as good a hive to start with as any..

just a couple of things that I hope you've considered...

You've linked to a 14x12, are you aware of the various different size boxes used by UK beekeepers?

Do you have any knowledge/training of beekeeping? There is a lot more to it than building a box.

I would suggest that you make contact with your local beekeeping association before you go any further.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.
I am aware of the different sized boxes yes. I have some knowledge purely through reading books/websites/forums and understand the basic principles of beekeeping. Training and/or experience...no, sadly. I am not so naive to think it would be as simple as building a box! I am of the understanding that once the underlying basics are understood and met, then the rest can be acquired through further reading and experience? If this is wrong I am happy to stand corrected. I know in an ideal situation, every newbie would go on courses, meet beekeepers etc. but as long as the bees themselves are catered for, that would be my only concern initially.

I know any training and experience is beneficial to any newcomer in any hobby, but are training courses absolutely essential, or are they a nice optional extra? (Opinions welcome!!). I like trial and error, as I do not believe that there is only one way to do something. Many different ways can yield equally effective results and I would like to discover my own way without being shown. As I said, I am only interested in correctly catering for the bees to start with, so as long as I understand this then I am confident to go ahead.

Thank you again for your input, I appreciate any advice.

 

[LJH]

welcome to the forum!

you should decide whether to go for wood or poly.

if wood, you should decide cedar, hardwood or softwood.

polys are cheap enough, and many on the forum swear by them.

each hive maker will have their favourite wood and their own reasons. I was given a couple of cedar supers, which are ok. they were used (came with a hive of bees rescued from the petrol can). the corners are rounded, but am not sure if it is because the wood is soft and is a 'feature'. (?)

I have not yet found a good supplier of cedar that does not cost the earth. The last supplier I found, I may as well buy the hives ready made.

All of my hives are made from 18mm softwood ply, with thick coats of green stain. I also give them an extra coat every couple of years.

as far as damage\wear and tear are concerned, the hives I built 5 years ago, can sit along those I have built recently and little difference can be seen.
For their cost, I have been very happy with their performance.

I use Dave Cushmans plans (beware, there are a couple of errors!), but over the years, have done a few modifications to suit my own needs and ideas.

Thanks for that. Definitely wood! Don't want to look out of the window at a couple of poly hives Have you any pics by any chance please??

 

[MikeT]

Thanks for the advice Mike, I may decide to go down this route. Does this look to be a competitive price? http://www.bees-online.co.uk/view.asp?ID=1270

This is an alterative http://www.thorne.co.uk/hives-and-bees/bees-on-a-budget/bees-on-a-budget-kits?product_id=197 Slightly cheaper. Mann Lake will be producing a new Catalogue at the end of the month and they may be slightly cheaper.

I would contact your local beekeeping association in Lancs (Google Bee Associations in Lancashire) they will help with the finding of local reared bees and will not rip you off.

 

[madasafish]

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.
I am aware of the different sized boxes yes. I have some knowledge purely through reading books/websites/forums and understand the basic principles of beekeeping. Training and/or experience...no, sadly. I am not so naive to think it would be as simple as building a box! I am of the understanding that once the underlying basics are understood and met, then the rest can be acquired through further reading and experience? If this is wrong I am happy to stand corrected. I know in an ideal situation, every newbie would go on courses, meet beekeepers etc. but as long as the bees themselves are catered for, that would be my only concern initially.

I know any training and experience is beneficial to any newcomer in any hobby, but are training courses absolutely essential, or are they a nice optional extra? (Opinions welcome!!). I like trial and error, as I do not believe that there is only one way to do something. Many different ways can yield equally effective results and I would like to discover my own way without being shown. As I said, I am only interested in correctly catering for the bees to start with, so as long as I understand this then I am confident to go ahead.

Thank you again for your input, I appreciate any advice.

Hmm

I built my own Langstroth hives from Beesource plans... http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/

You should be aware there are LOTS of local variations: small perhaps but when the frames you bought are too long/short!!!!

Do you want to reinvent teh wheel ? If so follow many others who posted on here , did their own thing and either gave up, failed or quietly went conventional.



Read up "beespace"...


Bees have their own peculiarities . It took beekeepers about 2500 years to find about beespace.. so it might be best to take some courses first.. I did. Of course if building rockets with no understanding of physics is your thing (as an example) don't bother

Bees do strange things. They are creatures. There is a lot of knowledge already found teh hard way.. A sensible person would use it.

Building your own hives is a challenge.. (I am no woodworker). Trying to then raise bees with no training is like learning to swim with no help.

Edit: I have a polyhive. Infinitely superior to wooden. It's like comparing a current car with one in the 1930s. Both do the job.. One is far easier and better to use.

 

[LJH]

Thanks for the advice Mike, I may decide to go down this route. Does this look to be a competitive price? http://www.bees-online.co.uk/view.asp?ID=1270

This is an alterative http://www.thorne.co.uk/hives-and-bees/bees-on-a-budget/bees-on-a-budget-kits?product_id=197 Slightly cheaper. Mann Lake will be producing a new Catalogue at the end of the month and they may be slightly cheaper.

I would contact your local beekeeping association in Lancs (Google Bee Associations in Lancashire) they will help with the finding of local reared bees and will not rip you off.

Great stuff. I may buy one of these to start with, sounds like a plan. I will google them and take a look. Thanks again.

 

[pargyle]

That's what I'm worried about the most with a self-build, the exact spacing measurements! Thanks for replying

It's not a problem .. buy, beg or borrow a frame of the size that you intend using, tack a 7mm fillet to the sides and either top or bottom bar (Depending on whether you intend running top or bottom bee space) and use this as a template for the internal dimensions of your box. Obviously, make sure the frame is square and true and it's a bit easier if you have two frames to use.

This will establish the internal dimensions of the box - the external dimensions will take care of themselves - obviously, you need to use appropriate materials - not chipboard - or the hive won't last long. I built my first hive from reclaimed timber (Old pine floorboards and pallet timber) and with exterior quality glue, screws and a good coat of preservative it's still going strong.

But ... my other two (and this year three and four) hives are Paynes Poly hives and they are a lot easier - just take them out of the box and paint them ! All depends on what your budget is - beekeeping is not a cheap hobby - all any honey you harvest and sell does is offset the cost of more equipment !!

 

[LJH]

It's not a problem .. buy, beg or borrow a frame of the size that you intend using, tack a 7mm fillet to the sides and either top or bottom bar (Depending on whether you intend running top or bottom bee space) and use this as a template for the internal dimensions of your box. Obviously, make sure the frame is square and true and it's a bit easier if you have two frames to use.

This will establish the internal dimensions of the box - the external dimensions will take care of themselves - obviously, you need to use appropriate materials - not chipboard - or the hive won't last long. I built my first hive from reclaimed timber (Old pine floorboards and pallet timber) and with exterior quality glue, screws and a good coat of preservative it's still going strong.

But ... my other two (and this year three and four) hives are Paynes Poly hives and they are a lot easier - just take them out of the box and paint them ! All depends on what your budget is - beekeeping is not a cheap hobby - all any honey you harvest and sell does is offset the cost of more equipment !!

Mmm paint them you say? I didn't realise you could paint them. Have you got a picture of yours by any chance? Maybe the poly hives would be a wiser choice with regards to the harsh weather we have. It is very open behind our garden and you can really feel the cold. Do they retain heat much better than a wooden hive and will they last many years??
Food for thought!

 

[Davelin]

Maybe the poly hives would be a wiser choice with regards to the harsh weather we have. It is very open behind our garden and you can really feel the cold. Do they retain heat much better than a wooden hive and will they last many years??
Food for thought!

The words 'Worms, can and open' spring to mind

 

[Davelin]

I am of the understanding that once the underlying basics are understood and met, then the rest can be acquired through further reading and experience? If this is wrong I am happy to stand corrected. I know in an ideal situation, every newbie would go on courses, meet beekeepers etc. but as long as the bees themselves are catered for, that would be my only concern initially.

I know any training and experience is beneficial to any newcomer in any hobby, but are training courses absolutely essential, or are they a nice optional extra? (Opinions welcome!!). I like trial and error, as I do not believe that there is only one way to do something. Many different ways can yield equally effective results and I would like to discover my own way without being shown. As I said, I am only interested in correctly catering for the bees to start with, so as long as I understand this then I am confident to go ahead.

Your problem with this approach is that error can very easily lead to the loss of your colony.

You should at very least learn about Varroa management as left unchecked this will kill your bees sure as eggs are eggs.

Unfortunately the days when you could let a hive of bees get on with their own thing are gone.

 

[user 11159]

you would be hard pressed to tell the difference[just looking] .only you/another bee keeper would no.look much better in my opinion ..[poly hive]

 

[madasafish]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJH View Post
Maybe the poly hives would be a wiser choice with regards to the harsh weather we have. It is very open behind our garden and you can really feel the cold. Do they retain heat much better than a wooden hive and will they last many years??
Food for thought!

The words 'Worms, can and open' spring to mind

In summary:

Poly hives are far better insulated than a wooden one. (fact , not opinion).

A properly painted one (unpainted degrades with UV) lasts a long time. 30 years in Finland is common.(fact).