Hive Building?

[LJH]

The words 'Worms, can and open' spring to mind

Your problem with this approach is that error can very easily lead to the loss of your colony.

You should at very least learn about Varroa management as left unchecked this will kill your bees sure as eggs are eggs.

Unfortunately the days when you could let a hive of bees get on with their own thing are gone.

I understand what you are saying and appreciate all advice, I really do. With regards to the Varroa mite, I intend to make regular inspections. I was planning on not treating for Varroa unless it reared its ugly head. I have read conflicting advice and varying methods. Some are of the opinion to treat twice yearly regardless, and I have also read that immunity can be built up and therefore it wouldn't be effective when it was actually needed if treated for unnecessarily, unless the brand is changed or alternated. At the moment, I am of the opinion to only treat as needed, although I may change my mind further down the line.

If it isn't broken, don't fix it, or prevention is better than cure...both are valid points!!

 

[LJH]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJH View Post
Maybe the poly hives would be a wiser choice with regards to the harsh weather we have. It is very open behind our garden and you can really feel the cold. Do they retain heat much better than a wooden hive and will they last many years??
Food for thought!




In summary:

Poly hives are far better insulated than a wooden one. (fact , not opinion).

A properly painted one (unpainted degrades with UV) lasts a long time. 30 years in Finland is common.(fact).

Are the poly hives pretty robust? Worth thinking about - thank you

 

[Swarm]

Are the poly hives pretty robust? Worth thinking about - thank you

Yes. Plenty of commercial outfits using them.

 

[Chris B]

At the moment, I am of the opinion to only treat as needed.

I totally agree. However, you will not find it an easy task to assess when that time of need is, certainly not until you have learned and experienced a bit of beekeeping. Meanwhile the only safe option is to treat them every autumn as a minimum.

 

[LJH]

I totally agree. However, you will not find it an easy task to assess when that time of need is, certainly not until you have learned and experienced a bit of beekeeping. Meanwhile the only safe option is to treat them every autumn as a minimum.

Thank you for the advice, much appreciated.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am of the understanding that once the underlying basics are understood and met....

Which is what you will get from attending a beginner's course - plus, if you go to a good BKA 'aftercare' from the experienced beekeepers you've met and demonstrated a willingness to learn who will only be too happy to be at the end of a phone at the very least if you encounter problems.

I like trial and error

Fair enough - but bees are living creatures and shouldn't be subjected to unneccessary error.or be at the receiving end of ill thought out experimentation.

I do not believe that there is only one way to do something. Many different ways can yield equally effective results

each has his/her own way, but as the old man used to say - it's nice to know what you're fiddling with before you start fiddling with it.

I was planning on not treating for Varroa unless it reared its ugly head.

No hive is without Varroa, don't believe what some of the eejits say, the trick is to not let it multiply to such numbers that it is of serious detriment to the health of your bees

I have also read that immunity can be built up and therefore it wouldn't be effective when it was actually needed if treated for unnecessarily, unless the brand is changed or alternated.

You see - a little knowledge............. that's why attending a beginners course can put you on a good footing.
The immunity scenario applies to the 'old' pyrethroid based treatments which nowadays should only be used as a last resort the usual autumn treatments are thymol based - a natural substance and no immunity has been seen or proven using this treatment, the other 'mainstream' treatment nowadays is oxalic acid in varuious application methods - same goes for immunity developing - no such thing.

At the moment, I am of the opinion to only treat as needed, although I may change my mind further down the line.

Nothing wrong with that standpoint - and nothing wrong with changing your mind later - trouble for a beginner is how do you know what 'as needed' is ?

Don't get me wrong - never did a beginner's course but I must admit I had good grounding with my grandfather and a few other family members
having kept bees and spending hours sat listening to him talking bees - so I'm not just preaching the party line; but now that I teach others and have spent time helping people in Africa who didn't have the luxury of a beginners course whether they wanted it or not - if you can, get on a course or if not that, join an association and attend their apiary days. It would be a heck of a lot less wasted time than watching some clown on Youtube 'teaching' you how to b*gger up your bees.

As for hive material - being a carpenter's son I like wood, but nothing wrong with poly. Chose a hive/frame type that's widely used in your area - it's easier to get nucs or colonies when your buying bees and having the same frame as other beekeepers can be handy if, at first you need a test frame or the like.

P.S. I hope that reading my post was a pleasant experience for you and that you don't feel too traumatised (got to check to ensure I don't upset the chattering class and pompous hand wringers on here )

 

[hedgehog66]

Welcome LJH
Im just down the road near Chorley
I run poly and wood nationals
You are more than welcome to come and look at them if it helps you to decide
I can also point you in the right direction to buy local bees

 

[LJH]

Which is what you will get from attending a beginner's course - plus, if you go to a good BKA 'aftercare' from the experienced beekeepers you've met and demonstrated a willingness to learn who will only be too happy to be at the end of a phone at the very least if you encounter problems.


Fair enough - but bees are living creatures and shouldn't be subjected to unneccessary error.or be at the receiving end of ill thought out experimentation.



each has his/her own way, but as the old man used to say - it's nice to know what you're fiddling with before you start fiddling with it.






No hive is without Varroa, don't believe what some of the eejits say, the trick is to not let it multiply to such numbers that it is of serious detriment to the health of your bees


You see - a little knowledge............. that's why attending a beginners course can put you on a good footing.
The immunity scenario applies to the 'old' pyrethroid based treatments which nowadays should only be used as a last resort the usual autumn treatments are thymol based - a natural substance and no immunity has been seen or proven using this treatment, the other 'mainstream' treatment nowadays is oxalic acid in varuious application methods - same goes for immunity developing - no such thing.



Nothing wrong with that standpoint - and nothing wrong with changing your mind later - trouble for a beginner is how do you know what 'as needed' is ?

Don't get me wrong - never did a beginner's course but I must admit I had good grounding with my grandfather and a few other family members
having kept bees and spending hours sat listening to him talking bees - so I'm not just preaching the party line; but now that I teach others and have spent time helping people in Africa who didn't have the luxury of a beginners course whether they wanted it or not - if you can, get on a course or if not that, join an association and attend their apiary days. It would be a heck of a lot less wasted time than watching some clown on Youtube 'teaching' you how to b*gger up your bees.

As for hive material - being a carpenter's son I like wood, but nothing wrong with poly. Chose a hive/frame type that's widely used in your area - it's easier to get nucs or colonies when your buying bees and having the same frame as other beekeepers can be handy if, at first you need a test frame or the like.

P.S. I hope that reading my post was a pleasant experience for you and that you don't feel too traumatised (got to check to ensure I don't upset the chattering class and pompous hand wringers on here )

Thanks for taking the time to address my posts It's greatly appreciated

Welcome LJH
Im just down the road near Chorley
I run poly and wood nationals
You are more than welcome to come and look at them if it helps you to decide
I can also point you in the right direction to buy local bees

That's fantastic and really appreciated! It would be great to meet up with you. If you could please PM me a mobile number and I will be in touch this week if that's okay with you?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[itma]

Thanks to JBM for saving me a lot of typing.

Just two additional points.
1/ Joinery vs diy carpentry.
The boxes DO NEED to be square and level and to an accuracy of less than 1mm. And boxes need to be the same size as each other.
Bees are fussy, and if they don't like the dimensions they will use wax and propolis -- which will mean that your "moveable frames" aren't easily moveable.

2/ Before you spend ANYTHING - have you had a few thousand bees flying around you?

As explained in the "thinking of starting" sticky thread, visiting an association during the beekeeping season (generally they welcome - and have PPE for - visitors) can get you to grips with real colonies of real bees. Before you spend anything.
And that experience is something you simply cannot get from books, etc.

3/ Don't give yourself the task of reinventing the wheel, especially when you are trying to learn other things - and learn them fast enough to try and keep up with the bees (what swarm control technique do you plan to employ?)
Take advantage of others' teaching rather than "finding out for yourself" - reading an instructional book isn't really "finding out for yourself" anyway.


You could try learning to ski on home-made skis and by reading books, but, though it might still be a hard skill to master, I can assure you that it'd be much easier on appropriate (manufactured) beginner skis and under the tutelage of a good ski instructor.
The analogy to beekeeping is pretty close.

 

[dn170221]

I thought I might get by without attending a course. I went to one anyway and have to say my original thinking was way wrong.
I would advise doing a course and buying your first hive. Make some bits and bobs maybe roof, floor, crown board etc before attempting a full hive especially if you are buying quality wood, very easy to end up with an expensive mistake.
Good luck!

 

[Edwardking]

Welcome to the very complex, demanding world of beekeeping. There is so much to learn, both from reading and from practice, that even after years of beekeeping we are still learning. Please don't think there are shortcuts. I recommend you to not to spend a penny on hives or bees until you've done a beginners course and spent time with bees at your local association apiary. Many, many beginners have given up when they experience what's involved, and saved themselves a lot of money. Take the easy route through learning and experience, rather than books and having a go.

 

[madasafish]

Finally .. as a KEY ISSUE

Have you ever been stung by a bee?

If no, you must get stung several times. If you are allergic to bee venom.. then you are placing your life potentially at risk (there are desensitisation course but they are lengthy,)

Beekeeping means stings at some time.

 

[LJH]

Finally .. as a KEY ISSUE

Have you ever been stung by a bee?

Beekeeping means stings at some time.

Yes...yes I have

 

[itma]

Finally .. as a KEY ISSUE

Have you ever been stung by a bee?
...

Yes...yes I have

Imprecision can mean the point is missed.

Honeybee stings are not the same as bumblebee, wasp, hornet, whatever stings.
It is possible to have a bad reaction to any one of them and yet not to any of the others.

In practice, it seems that honeybee-sting allergy builds up over time, with more severe reactions. Hence its hard to predict at the outset. And as mentioned, it IS treatable (on the NHS) to mitigate severe effects, but staying the (precisely spread-out over a long period) course of injections does definitely require commitment
However, being stung - by a honeybee - remains a useful (but optional) part of initiation. One of the major aspects of beekeeping training is learning what not to do - and thereby minimising the stinging!

 

[user 11159]

bee sting's do hurt .the one's on my photo album .were my own fault for going back to check if i had put every thing back [no protection on].never get complacent.. i don't do it now...

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I started out two years ago by going on a three day intro. course that included a day and a half in a beesuit in an apiary - valuable experience. As a result of information and advice from the course, and the need to keep the initial cost down, I decided to make 14x12 hives with top bee space. An 8x4 sheet of 19mm exterior grade plywood gave me two brood boxes and four supers and a couple of roofs. They work well, if a little heavy, but I have subsequently made Urethane foam covers for the hives to keep out the wind and keep in the heat.

As has been said above, you need a good understanding of bee space, whether that's around the frames, under the frame lugs, etc. During construction everything must be square and you need to be assured that the base on which you finally assemble the base is perfectly flat, otherwise there will be gaps between the boxes of the hive - a piece of good quality 25mm plywood would do this. To improve the rigidity of the boxes and reduce heat losses, you could use wooden dowels instead of metal screws or nails.

I also made underfloor entrances that proved to be very easy to make and to use - look them up on Dave Cushman's website. You'll need a supply of mesh for Open Mesh Floors - keep an eye out for suitable secondhand fireguards at car boot scales. I was given some 6 gauge stainless steel mesh, left over from a rebuilt custom-made fire guard, that is good for the OMF.

It's difficult to summarise two year's experience in a few paragraphs but this contribution and the advice from other forum members with give you something to ponder.

CVB

 

[LJH]

Thanks for your feedback everyone. It's certainly given me something to think about

 

[Nige.Coll]

Do a course mate.
Swallow your pride and admit you need help.
From then on your beekeeping will be far more successful.
If you turn up here asking stupid questions when you actually have bees you won't feel so welcome.

 

[LJH]

Do a course mate.
Swallow your pride and admit you need help.
From then on your beekeeping will be far more successful.
If you turn up here asking stupid questions when you actually have bees you won't feel so welcome.

I don't think the "swallow your pride" remark is warranted by any of my posts, it just isn't a relevant comment to make. No pride issues here! Forgive me if I am mis-interpreting your post, but it reads a little harsh.
Forums are the same no matter what the subject. You get people who don't want to help, and some who do.
Anyways... I may well take a short course yet, never say never. At the minute I am expressing a keen interest, and so far I have had several PM's from some very helpful people.

Thank you kindly for the advice anyway, much appreciated!

 

[Nige.Coll]

I don't think the "swallow your pride" remark is warranted by any of my posts, it just isn't a relevant comment to make. No pride issues here! Forgive me if I am mis-interpreting your post, but it reads a little harsh.
Forums are the same no matter what the subject. You get people who don't want to help, and some who do.
Anyways... I may well take a short course yet, never say never. At the minute I am expressing a keen interest, and so far I have had several PM's from some very helpful people.

Thank you kindly for the advice anyway, much appreciated!

Sry Didn't mean to seem rude.
Doing a basic course with some bee handling is a must really.
Things look different in a book.


"If you turn up here asking stupid questions when you actually have bees you won't feel so welcome."
This wasn't meant to sound nasty, more as advice I've seen many eaten by bears here lol. Having some basic knowledge would help with that.

Again sorry if I came across a little rude I didn't mean to.